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Our Next BB Coach or #MannUp + other coach talk

CHillDeac said:
Wes Miller has UNCG within 7pts of NCSU @ half. And this without his leading scorer, Trevis Simpson(scored 25pts against us), who twisted his ankle walking across campus this morning.
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It's now 16 and growing. Wes Miller is not the answer to our needs.
 
" I hate how this secretive process has allowed him and [Redacted] to destroy our program and drag Skip and Dino through thr mud because there is zero accountability"

Again you don't get it. Wellman did not drag Skip through the mud only Dino.
 
RJKarl said:
It's now 16 and growing. Wes Miller is not the answer to our needs.
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The more I see the shit storm that our program has become, the more I realize if we don't hit a grand slam we are fucked for at least another 3-4 years. Wes Miller is not a grand slam.
 
I can almost liken this to Odom/Staak transition - Odom got a class with Rogers/Childress = Grand Slam (thanks, Jerry!).
 
RJKarl said:
" I hate how this secretive process has allowed him and [Redacted] to destroy our program and drag Skip and Dino through thr mud because there is zero accountability"

Again you don't get it. Wellman did not drag Skip through the mud only Dino.
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You don't see how the problems with culture are easily attributable to Skip? James, Jeff, and Gary were Skip's recruits. So were Tony and Ty. Dino and Jeff were continuing on the recruiting momentum that was generated by Skip and his staff. Every indictment of our culture is absolutely an indictment, no matter how direct or indirect of Dino, Skip, Pat, etc. That, to me, is what's so infuriating about the culture crap. These were good, hardworking men, who did an overwhelming majority of good while on campus. Especially when compared to Jeff [Redacted].
 
Skip made his kids go to class. There weren't any bad disciplinary problems under Skip. They happened under Dino who had no control over his players on or off the court.

Night and day, it wasn't about Skip.
 
Strickland33 said:
You don't see how the problems with culture are easily attributable to Skip? James, Jeff, and Gary were Skip's recruits. So were Tony and Ty. Dino and Jeff were continuing on the recruiting momentum that was generated by Skip and his staff. Every indictment of our culture is absolutely an indictment, no matter how direct or indirect of Dino, Skip, Pat, etc. That, to me, is what's so infuriating about the culture crap. These were good, hardworking men, who did an overwhelming majority of good while on campus. Especially when compared to Jeff [Redacted].
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Well said. Not to mention the major disciplinary problems that happened with those players happened on Bz' watch and he's the one who gave Ty another chance.
 
Thanks, Ph.

How about Randy Bennett for HC? Thoughts, RJ?
 
He cabn recruit australia. We have to set our sights higher.
 
RJKarl said:
He cabn recruit australia. We have to set our sights higher.
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Any coach is better than [Redacted], but why would Alford be on the short list to make us serious contenders? Despite conference tournament success, he seemed out of his depth at Iowa during the regular season and never advanced far in the NCAAT. Similar results in the NCAAT in the MWC. What makes him on par with the likes of Stevens in your mind?
 
Strickland33 said:
In general, I agree with both of you. We are Wake Forestand we have the players to build on for a fairly quick turnaround for whoever decides to coach in [Redacted]'s disastrous wake. That said and I am posing this question to the both of you: what coach would want to operate in our AD's current culture?

Wellman fired a coach for not recruiting on his terms, and threw a much loved coach and program under the bus to justify a crony hire. Said crony hire waltzed to a miserable record, embarrassing effort and incidents, and awful recruiting, which were allegedly the bases upon which the past coach was fired. Furthermore, said AD has proven himself to be wildly inconsistent, less than likeable, and not amenable to compromise or collaborative decision making. Finally, said AD has a track record of hiring a particular type of basketball coach, which doesn't include the Alford or Smart type... He also isn't exactly what one would call a coach's AD. You cave to his demands or weather an embarrassing firing, where your competency, collegiality, and morality are all inappropriately called into question publically and long after your firing. Are these not legitimate questions that arise in the face of speculation that we can make a top shelf basketball hire?

Like I said, I want Shaka as much as anybody. I'm just worried that Wellman's conduct and the public state of our program will make this an impossibility.
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^^^THIS^^^ The problem is not whether top tier coaches will want to coach at Wake. It's whether top tier coaches will work for Ron Wellman.

Deacsfan27 said:
... On an aside...a lot of people here acknowledge that Ron Wellman identified Brad Stevens as a potential coach before he even reached back to back Final Fours. While he was unable to secure the deal, potentially because Stevens went to the Final Four that year, it does say a lot about RW and his ability to distinguish talent in an up and coming basketball coach. ...
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I disagree. Ron Wellman is the man who hired Jeff [Redacted]... Despite overwhelming evidence that it was a mistake, he hired Jeff [Redacted].
 
Stevens and Butler went 29-4 (16-2), 26-6 (15-3), and 28-4 (18-0) in the three regular seasons prior to his first Final 4. It did not take a genius to identify him as a very good coach. I mean many on the board realized it. Meanwhile, Wellman actually thought [Redacted] was a good coach. I won't say what it takes to think that.

Steven's first season was the best regular season in the history of Butler basketball. Until his third anyway.


ETA: I realize this is kind of incongruous with my take on [Redacted]'s AFA tenure. Difference is that Stevens was an assistant prior to becoming head coach so he gets at least some credit for helping put together the roster. Plus both Hayward and Mack committed to Stevens, and Howard only played under Stevens. Of the top 8 on the '09-'10 team, only one ever played for Lickliter.
 
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He thought [Redacted] could do what Stevens was doing at Butler.
 
RJKarl said:
He cabn recruit australia. We have to set our sights higher.
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Bennett

He also has two NCAA tournament wins, three straight appearances, and has done a great job staying competitive at a program with religious affiliation and a lower tier mid major conference. He strikes me as the type of under the radar coaching prospect that we could get and who might be able to rebuild our program.

RJ, in your mind and considering their complete bodies of work, what actually distinguishes Shaka from Bennett? If you don't believe me, check their records. Or Alford? Who should we be targeting? Who is your 10-coach list?
 
RJKarl said:
We'd be in heaven right now had IU's resurgence started one year earlier.

The concept of a "crony hire" is for the lazy. It's total crap. Bzedlik was a minimum of our third choice. The difference between us signing him and State signing Sidney Lowe was we didn't do our hiring in public. It was the one thing that Wellman did correctly in this fiasco.
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You absolutely lost me on this one, RJ.
 
Strickland33 said:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Bennett

He also has two NCAA tournament wins, three straight appearances, and has done a great job staying competitive at a program with religious affiliation and a lower tier mid major conference. He strikes me as the type of under the radar coaching prospect that we could get and who might be able to rebuild our program.

RJ, in your mind and considering their complete bodies of work, what actually distinguishes Shaka from Bennett? If you don't believe me, check their records. Or Alford? Who should we be targeting? Who is your 10-coach list?
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You can't be serious. Shaka has been a D1 HC for three years. He's won a game in the NCAA one and made the Final Four in another. In what universe is that not better than one Sweet 16 and three first game losses?

It's staggering that you actually have a question what distinguishes between these two coaches.

As to the difference between Alford and Bennett. When Steve Alford goes into a living room, people know who he is. This would be his first real big time job. Iowa has been a second to third tier Big Ten school for decades and New Mexico is on outsider.

By the way Bennett is older than Alford and has TWO HUNDRED less wins.

As to going ten deep. That's for losers. If we pay properly and make a good presentation, let's get one of the Top 3.
 
bluefish said:
You absolutely lost me on this one, RJ.
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Since you're probably still too high to look for how I explained this earlier. Here it is :)

"Then you don't understand our history or the English language.

"We'd be in heaven right now had IU's resurgence started one year earlier."

Had IU gotten good that year, it's extremely likely that either Stevens or Alford would have accepted our offer. They would have known not to wait for the job. We be in heaven with one of those guys coaching our team.

The concept of a "crony hire" is for the lazy. It's total crap. Bzedlik was a minimum of our third choice. The difference between us signing him and State signing Sidney Lowe was we didn't do our hiring in public. It was the one thing that Wellman did correctly in this fiasco."

It's not "spinning" to say this wasn't a "crony hire". It's spinning to say it was.
Secondly, the only thing Wellman did correctly in this fiasco was to keep it out of the press. That's not "spinning". It'/s accurate. He failed in waiting so long to fire Dino. He failed to get the guys he wanted. But he did keep everything out of the press.
 
Randy Bennett would actually probably qualify as a splash hire. He's had Saint Mary's competing neck and neck with Gonzaga the past few years, and I think everyone knows it (5 straight 25+ win seasons is impressive). That said, I'm with RJ in that I don't have confidence he could be successful here just because the farthest east he has ever coached was as an assistant at St. Louis, and that was for only two years. His best players have also historically come from Australia, which would likely be more difficult to land in NC than in CA.
 
RJ, I do think everyone is pretty much in agreement about the top 3. Shaka, Stevens, Alford, probably in that order. People only mention guys like Michael White or even Randy Bennett as back-up.
 
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