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Our Next BB Coach or #MannUp + other coach talk

If we offer those guys the deal, one will say yes.

By adding Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse and Notre Dame, the ACC is either the #1 or at worst #2 bball conference.

My bad for forgetting L'Ville. The ACC will be back at #1.
 
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Snoozy's a little long in the tooth to start over at Wake.
 
RJKarl said:
If we sign any of those guys, expect another two years before we get good. That's assuming that we get Mitchell and they find a big by then.

No kids have ever heard of them. Sorry, we don't have that luxury now.
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I mean, this is the caliber coach we have a shot at getting. Or take a swing at an elite associate or assistant coach from a high major team.
 
RJKarl said:
LOWF thinking
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I mean. I want Shaka as much as you do. I just know that this past couple coaching situations makes us look really terrible. Paired with Wellman's hangups and that's going to get you a fourth tier hire. Our athletic department has created a LOWF culture.
 
Strickland33 said:
I mean. I want Shaka as much as you do. I just know that this past couple coaching situations makes us look really terrible. Paired with Wellman's hangups and that's going to get you a fourth tier hire. Our athletic department has created a LOWF culture.
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I really think that if we show enough money we can land a top guy like RJ thinks. We are still a good school to go to and will be a top landing spot this year.
 
I guess because you and RJ were still sold on Bz till recently you haven't paid any attention to how college basketball hires now work?
 
doofus. just remember the fact that you have had direct access to a major program for the past four years and tintin has had direct access to the internet means he must know more of the inner-workings of college basketball than you.

You should also know that those emails I've shown you through the years must be made up as well.

We should really listen to tintin. He knows so much more than either of us.
 
tintinisahottie said:
I guess because you and RJ were still sold on Bz till recently you haven't paid any attention to how college basketball hires now work?
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What are you talking about? Wanting to wait until I thought Jeff [Redacted] was not the solution to Wake Forest basketball has nothing to do with my inability to determine who may or may not come here after he is gone.

At the end of the day Wake Forest is still an above average ACC team with a foundation that can win in a year or two. Potential coaches coming in don't care at all what has transpired the past two-three years. They only care about what they can do moving forward and who is on the team now.
 
82deacman said:
Anyone have any thoughts on Pat Kelsey?
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I love Pat Kelsey. Always been a fan of him and his speech at the Carolina Challenge last year confirmed it even more. I am in the camp though that Wake should completely clear themselves of the Skip Prosser tree for several reasons.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I love Pat Kelsey. Always been a fan of him and his speech at the Carolina Challenge last year confirmed it even more. I am in the camp though that Wake should completely clear themselves of the Skip Prosser tree for several reasons.
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What reasons would those be?
 
RJKarl said:
doofus. just remember the fact that you have had direct access to a major program for the past four years and tintin has had direct access to the internet means he must know more of the inner-workings of college basketball than you.

You should also know that those emails I've shown you through the years must be made up as well.

We should really listen to tintin. He knows so much more than either of us.
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Deacsfan27 said:
What are you talking about? Wanting to wait until I thought Jeff [Redacted] was not the solution to Wake Forest basketball has nothing to do with my inability to determine who may or may not come here after he is gone.

At the end of the day Wake Forest is still an above average ACC team with a foundation that can win in a year or two. Potential coaches coming in don't care at all what has transpired the past two-three years. They only care about what they can do moving forward and who is on the team now.
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In general, I agree with both of you. We are Wake Forestand we have the players to build on for a fairly quick turnaround for whoever decides to coach in [Redacted]'s disastrous wake. That said and I am posing this question to the both of you: what coach would want to operate in our AD's current culture?

Wellman fired a coach for not recruiting on his terms, and threw a much lived coach and program under the bus to justify a crony hire. Said crony hire waltzed to a miserable record, embarrassing effort and incidents, and awful recruiting, which were allegedly the bases upon which the past coach was fired. Furthermore, said AD has proven himself to be wildly inconsistent, less than likeable, and not amenable to compromise or collaborative decision making. Finally, said AD has a track record of hiring a particular type of basketball coach, which doesn't include the Alford or Smart type... He also isn't exactly what one would call a coach's AD. You cave to his demands or weather an embarrassing firing, where your competency, collegiality, and morality are all inappropriately called into question publically and long after your firing. Are these not legitimate questions that arise in the face of speculation that we can make a top shelf basketball hire?

Like I said, I want Shaka as much as anybody. I'm just worried that Wellman's conduct and the public state of our program will make this an impossibility.
 
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been paying attention, then how in your right mind can you say that an "above average" ACC team (and that is very generous for wake's current state, unfortunately) can have Shaka or one of the other top 3 mid-major coaches if they just throw money at him? That has no foundation in reality. None. Even disregarding that it will be Wake's 3rd coach in a few years, abysmal records, and low talent level (the rest of the country's assessment), above average ACC teams do not have that kind of pull anymore. The landscape of college basketball has changed. Those 3 are waiting for elite, to half step below elite level jobs, and Wake is nowhere near that


I mean damn, look at how many candidates have turned State down in the past 2 searches, one coming off 5 straight NCAA tournaments, one coming off quite a few bad seasons BUT with a ton of talent. Look at what Georgia Tech ended up with, VT, and Miami. Look at what coaches Big East teams that aren't elite have to hire too. I mean honestly.

It doesn't mean you are stuck with bad hires, just hires that aren't sure things
 
Strickland33 said:
In general, I agree with both of you. We are Wake Forestand we have the players to build on for a fairly quick turnaround for whoever decides to coach in [Redacted]'s disastrous wake. That said and I am posing this question to the both of you: what coach would want to operate in our AD's current culture?

Wellman fired a coach for not recruiting on his terms, and threw a much lived coach and program under the bus to justify a crony hire. Said crony hire waltzed to a miserable record, embarrassing effort and incidents, and awful recruiting, which were allegedly the bases upon which the past coach was fired. Furthermore, said AD has proven himself to be wildly inconsistent, less than likeable, and not amenable to compromise or collaborative decision making. Finally, said AD has a track record of hiring a particular type of basketball coach, which doesn't include the Alford or Smart type... He also isn't exactly what one would call a coach's AD. You cave to his demands or weather an embarrassing firing, where your competency, collegiality, and morality are all inappropriately called into question publically and long after your firing. Are these not legitimate questions that arise in the face of speculation that we can make a top shelf basketball hire?

Like I said, I want Shaka as much as anybody. I'm just worried that Wellman's conduct and the public state of our program will make this an impossibility.
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I think Ron Wellman, regardless of a lot of Wake Forest fans opinions, is still highly respected by most in the coaching/AD world. Nothing solid to base that off of, just my opinion.

I disagree that RW isn't a coach's AD. He has proven himself to defend a coach almost to a fault. I agree that the Dino Gaudio firing was extremely questionable, but I think that could be explained away if the coach asks him point blank about why that decision was made. Once again, we do not know the whole RW vs. DG story and there could very well be a lot more to it than the public knows about. If the coach has serious concerns about that I believe that RW will have no problem at all explaining to him exactly what happened and why it happened.

You have to keep in mind that the opinions and knowledge that we have as fans are not necessarily the same views that potential coaches would have coming into a possible coaching position here.

I'm not as sure that we can land Shaka Smart as RJ is, but I do think we can land a coach that has won on a fairly high stage at the NCAA level before.

On an aside...a lot of people here acknowledge that Ron Wellman identified Brad Stevens as a potential coach before he even reached back to back Final Fours. While he was unable to secure the deal, potentially because Stevens went to the Final Four that year, it does say a lot about RW and his ability to distinguish talent in an up and coming basketball coach. That right there is half the battle. This time, he needs to complete the second step and actually hire said coach.

I agree that there are a fair amount of questions surrounding our basketball team and the AD that led us into this situation. I, however, am not completely willing to write off his ability to right the ship and turn it around to where we need to be.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
On an aside...a lot of people here acknowledge that Ron Wellman identified Brad Stevens as a potential coach before he even reached back to back Final Fours. While he was unable to secure the deal, potentially because Stevens went to the Final Four that year, it does say a lot about RW and his ability to distinguish talent in an up and coming basketball coach. That right there is half the battle.
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This point is ridiculous. Of course, Wellman identified Stevens as a potential coach prior to the Final Fours. So did everyone else. Any coach who takes a mid-major to an at-large caliber seed is going to be on ADs' radars. As of the time of Gaudio's firing, Stevens had done it three years in a row - the first as the second-youngest coach in D1, the second after losing four starters from the previous year's team, and the third as a preseason top-10 team (thanks, Wikipedia!) - and he was all of what, 33?. The ability to distinguish an up-and-coming coach in Stevens is about equivalent to the ability to distinguish Michael Jordan as an up-and-coming player after he hit the jumper to beat Georgetown - you might not know just how great they'll become but you know they're going to be pretty damn good.
 
I'm sure there's a donkey-wrestling coach in the Balkans that I'd rather have coaching this team than [Redacted]. Seriously, this guy couldn't motivate Moon to make dwarf posts. I'd rather have Lancelot Link roaming the sidelines in WF gear. Any coach of any sport is acceptable at this point.
 
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