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Our Next BB Coach or #MannUp + other coach talk

BTW, the great John Groce is tied for last place in the Big We Can't the Number of Teams We Have.

He also made the NCAA Tournament in his first year there, got 3 4-stars committed in his first recruiting class, has Leron Black coming in next year and has 2 4-stars committed for the 2015 class. I think Illinois will be okay.
 
I'm so afraid Wellman is gonna pull another bzzz out of the hat. Somebody none of us has ever heard of, and when we do hear his name and read a little, we just shake our heads and groan.

On the other hand, his ego was fed heartily after the Clawson hire. Maybe he'll want more of that and aim to bring in a very strong candidate.

Will a major candidate look at Wake, or have RW and bzz tainted us by poisoning our program? Will coaches look at Wellman's firing Dino and hiring bzz and say, "NO WAY - that AD is psycho!"?

Regardless, this is uncomfortably scary.
 
Any coach who is turned off because biz got fired is not anyone we want anyway. Bzz's firing will go down as the most justified and overdue in the history of firings
 
I'm so afraid Wellman is gonna pull another bzzz out of the hat. Somebody none of us has ever heard of, and when we do hear his name and read a little, we just shake our heads and groan.

On the other hand, his ego was fed heartily after the Clawson hire. Maybe he'll want more of that and aim to bring in a very strong candidate.

Will a major candidate look at Wake, or have RW and bzz tainted us by poisoning our program? Will coaches look at Wellman's firing Dino and hiring bzz and say, "NO WAY - that AD is psycho!"?

Regardless, this is uncomfortably scary.

I agree. If we want to run with the "Ron's ego" theory, I think that means we're either going to get a homerun or another bzz, no middle ground here.
 
I'm so afraid Wellman is gonna pull another bzzz out of the hat. Somebody none of us has ever heard of, and when we do hear his name and read a little, we just shake our heads and groan.

On the other hand, his ego was fed heartily after the Clawson hire. Maybe he'll want more of that and aim to bring in a very strong candidate.

Will a major candidate look at Wake, or have RW and bzz tainted us by poisoning our program? Will coaches look at Wellman's firing Dino and hiring bzz and say, "NO WAY - that AD is psycho!"?

Regardless, this is uncomfortably scary.

Good point about the Dino firing being a bit unnerving for a prospective hire. But I have a feeling that the reasons are common knowledge in coaching circles and may be seen as justified. Should be noted that Dino hasn't been hired since he was canned, which I find surprising considering his record at Wake. Maybe he just isn't interested in coaching again. I don't know.
 
I think we should try the unusual strategy of a staff made completely of former Clemson head coaches (Barnes, Purnell, Shyatt, and Ellis). TO decide who is head coach, a pay-per-view MMA tournament amongst the four. We use the ppv money to buy out Buzz. Tourney winner is head coach. (Obviously it will be Barnes--I bet he wins on a couple of borderline illegal moves.)
 
Any coach who is turned off because biz got fired is not anyone we want anyway. Bzz's firing will go down as the most justified and overdue in the history of firings

Basketball programs are much easier to turn around.

No coach should be afraid to take over Wake Forest; in fact, a good coach should want the job because he would know how much he will be appreciated when we start winning again.
 
Any coach who is turned off because biz got fired is not anyone we want anyway. Bzz's firing will go down as the most justified and overdue in the history of firings

That's not the concern I pointed out at all. I'm referring to Wellman's firing Dino (and all his wins) and replacing him with a complete donk who agreed to keep Dino's staff. Bzz is little more than Wellman's puppet. AND the fans are upset. This looks like a crazy house no matter what angle and I'm afraid no one worth having will want to step inside and make himself at home.
 
That's not the concern I pointed out at all. I'm referring to Wellman's firing Dino (and all his wins) and replacing him with a complete donk who agreed to keep Dino's staff. Bzz is little more than Wellman's puppet. AND the fans are upset. This looks like a crazy house no matter what angle and I'm afraid no one worth having will want to step inside and make himself at home.

Ehh, I think Ron giving [Redacted]: (i) a full 4 years, notwithstanding an abysmal record and little to no on-court progress; (ii) an incredibly favor OOC schedule; and (iii) near constant public support in interviews, media relations, and even in terms of lessening or 'softening' [Redacted]'s off-court obligations (e.g., foreclosing live questions during the radio show, sending Chilldress to various speaking engagements, etc.) all will be points in our favor when it comes time to woo a coach from another program.
 
Thanks 2&2 and OGB. While he did have some personality issues to deal with at Seton Hall, the plain fact is he underachieved with some massive talent that 1 year. And I'm sorry but making the NIT 3 times in 6 years at Michigan is okay? Sure they were in trouble when he took over, but you can't make the dance 1 time in 6 years at Michigan?!? Michigan has a natty and a darn good hoops history. That shite ain't gonna get it done there. Whereas Beilein has done a nice job in what has become a deeper and tougher Big-10 than it was when Amaker was there.

I recognized he's done a great job at Hahvahd. Great for Tommy. But gimme White and even Lonergan or maybe Miller before Amaker.

Not to harp on Amaker too much, but the other thing I never liked about him at Seton Hall was that those rplayers were out in the press extensively talking about multiple National Championships before they ever played a game, and Amaker didn't do anything to shut that up. They had a target on their back from day 1 and neither the players nor the coach handled any of it well, again leading to the internal fight. Its like he got the guys there but then had no idea what to do with them. It reminds me way too much of Dino. I get that Amaker was really young at the time, but I don't think relative success at Harvard in the interim addresses those spotlight issues. I just don't see him as an upgrade over Dino which, assuming we are just simply trying to forget about the Bzzaster, is what we are theoretically looking for.
 
Our Next BB Coach or Mike White et al.

You know who I love?

Coach Ron Hunter down here at Georgia State. Dude is personable and runs an awesome offense that would be exciting to watch. Just throwing it out there...

I watch those guys a lot and love their roster, and have the complete opposite opinion...

If you take away his high major transfers (Atkins and Harrow) and the fact that his son committed to the program, I'm skeptical about his recruiting (outside of his son and the huge exception of George Hill - who has he recruited?) and why is he not the Gregg Marshall of the southeast with his current roster?

GSU has one of the most talented rosters outside of the BCS and I'm not sure if they'll even make the tournament. He's had some seriously talented rosters in the past, too, and meh.
 
Shaka comment not surprising, most people would give the same answer. RW comments are interesting and nice to hear a different perspective.
 
But I have a feeling that the reasons are common knowledge in coaching circles and may be seen as justified.
No doubt true. Most non-Wake fans don't have the disdain for Bz either. Candidates aren't going to hate Wellman for what happened. The guy stuck to his hire and that carries way more weight in those circles. People want a strong advocate as their boss.

As for choosing, the guy had issues with the way Skip/Dino handled things and got mesmerized with Bz beating Skip "the right way". He hired a guy that he thought fixed the problems he had. FAIL. Now he has a different set of problems and will hire a coach to address them, most of which have been beaten on here like turning a Clydsdale into a grain of sand.
 
they lost this game but watching mike white (my boi) coach from the sidelines is monte

 
In case some people missed this in the other coaching thread from a few days ago...

Excerpts from an email that I received from someone that I know in a coaching search firm. The email was a response to one I sent that asked how WF is positioned, who his ideal match would be, and how people view Wellman/[Redacted] situation.

"Wake Forest will have a lot of interest in its position if/when it opens up. It would definitely be among the top schools looking, if not the top school. Wake Forest does not have the history of the super elite programs but I think a lot of people would put them in the second tier of programs (top 25/30) with the ability to become a tweener of those two groups. To many, the past few years of struggles have not really had too much of an impact on their perception of the school. I am not familiar with who WF's AD has on his list but from my conversations with various people throughout the NCAA landscape, I believe that Wake Forest is in a position to land a great coach."

"If I was in charge of hiring the next coach, my #1 fit would be Shaka Smart. He looks ready to take the next step and he has the experience/skills necessary to succeed in high major basketball. He values education and can function well in that environment. I believe that Wake Forest would be a great fit for him."

"Wellman is viewed as a leader among his peers. Everyone knows that he wants the athletic teams run in a specific maner but that is not viewed as necessarily a bad thing and it is not that much different than most ADs. Make no mistake, having Ron Wellman as the AD is an advantage for WF over most other schools."
I mean this e-mail is nice and all and many thanks to KingDeac for posting it, but I'm not outrageously comforted by any of this. Most of this is just vague platitudes and subjective statements that really don't give us any insight into things we don't already know.

For example, we know that Wake will likely be the best (if not one of the best) vacant position this spring. But that's not really the issue. We're not only concerned with whether Marshall or Smart (or whoever) will choose Wake over, say, VT or BC or Okie St. or Stanford; we're also concerned with whether the Wake position is better than the jobs Marshall and Smart already have, not to mention the jobs they've previously turned down (e.g., NC State, Illinois, VT) or may be holding out hope for. It's not about beating Stanford circa 2013-14, but about beating VCU and Wichita St. as well as whichever job these guys might think is about to open up.

Also, this guy's e-mail speaks solely in terms of outside perception of the Wake job and whether it's been harmed by the [Redacted] era. Well, this obviously ignores whether Smart or Marshall (or whoever) would've been interested in a counter-factual version of Wake that never had the [Redacted] era. It's possible that the last 4 years haven't severely diminished WF hoops, but that we wouldn't be a realistic choice for Marshall or Smart even that notwithstanding. Remember, the NCAA tournament has changed, seeding has changed, and our conference has changed; there are plenty of other reasons why Wake may arguably not be as attractive as a job as it used to be separate and apart from anything Jeff [Redacted] has done.

Lastly, this guys says that HE thinks Smart would be a great fit for Wake and that's who HE would target if he were Wake. Well of course; Smart's an incredible candidate and any program with a high-major vacancy would be foolish not to at least inquire. But this doesn't say anything about whether Smart thinks Smart would be a good fit at Wake, much less whether Wake could even pay Smart enough to entice him to leave. The fit has to go both ways. And as much as I get excited hearing that Smart "values education" and "can function well in that [WFU?] environment," I really have no clue how either of these thoughts translates practically to Wake vis-a-vis VCU. Sure, he may "value education," but what exactly does this mean? That he wants a school with fewer students? Tougher academic requirements for the players he wants to recruit? A higher workload for his players once they enroll? Some of these things would seem to make his job harder; not easier.

Again, don't want to sound like a debbie downer or that I'm raining on this info; it's legitimately cool that KingDeac was able to exchange e-mails with someone at a coaching search firm, and it's really cool that KingDeac shared parts of the e-mail with the board. (I just pos repped KingDeac for said post, in fact.) But I really can't get my hopes up based on this guy's e-mail, given what it doesn't say coupled with various other considerations that may not travel the wider circles of discussion -- e.g., financial limitations, previous buy-out commitments, RW's personal preferences, etc.
 
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I mean this e-mail is nice and all and many thanks to KingDeac for posting it, but I'm not outrageously comforted by any of this. Most of this is just vague platitudes and subjective statements that really don't give us any insight into things we don't already know.

For example, we know that Wake will likely the best (if not one of the best) vacant positions this spring. But that's not really the issue. We're not concerned with whether Marshall or Smart (or whoever) will choose Wake over, say, VT or BC or Okie St. or Stanford; we're concerned with whether the Wake position is better than the jobs Marshall and Smart already have, not to mention the jobs they've previously turned down (e.g., NC State, Illinois, VT) or may be holding out hope for. It's not about beating Stanford circa 2013-14, but about beating VCU and Wichita St. as well as whichever job these guys might think is about to open up.

Also, this guy's e-mail speaks solely in terms of outside perception of the Wake job and whether it's been harmed by the [Redacted] era. Well, this obviously ignores whether Smart or Marshall (or whoever) would've been interested in a counter-factual version of Wake that never had the [Redacted] era. It's possible that the last 4 years haven't severely diminished WF hoops, but that we wouldn't be a realistic choice for Marshall or Smart even that notwithstanding. Remember, the NCAA tournament has changed, seeding has changed, and our conference has changed; there are plenty of other reasons why Wake may arguably not be as attractive as a job as it used to be separate and apart from anything Jeff [Redacted] has done.

Lastly, this guys says that HE thinks Smart would be a great fit for Wake and that's who HE would target if he were Wake. Well of course; Smart's an incredible candidate and any program with a high-major vacancy would be foolish not to at least inquire. But this doesn't say anything about whether Smart thinks Smart would be a good fit at Wake, much less whether Wake could even pay Smart enough to entice him to leave. The fit has to go both ways. And as much as I get excited hearing that Smart "values education" and "can function well in that [WFU?] environment," I really have no clue how either of these thoughts translates practically to Wake vis-a-vis VCU. Sure, he may "value education," but what exactly does this mean? That he wants a school with fewer students? Tougher academic requirements for players he wants to recruit? A higher workload for his players once they enroll?

Again, don't want to sound like a debbie downer or that I'm raining on this info; it's legitimately cool that KingDeac was able to exchange e-mails with someone at a coaching search firm, and it's really cool that KingDeac shared parts of the e-mail with the board. (I just pos repped KingDeac for said post, in fact.) But I really can't get my hopes up based on this guy's e-mail, given what it doesn't say coupled with various other considerations that may not travel the wider circles of discussion -- e.g., financial limitations, previous buy-out commitments, RW's personal preferences, etc.

Pretty much exactly what I thought. Good post.
 
There are two main things to take away from that e-mail.

1. The [Redacted] era has not made our job less attractive despite many claims here that say otherwise.
2. Working for Ron Wellman is not going to scare off potential candidates and may actually attract them.
 
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