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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

I think everyone acknowledges that DM has upgraded our talent level. However, it is now year 3 and it is time to start winning! We must stop losing to the Nortwesterns of the world. Richmond was a nice road win...but we should expect to win that game. Manning must also show he can win on the road in the ACC. There is a premium on leadership/coaching to win on the road. This is an area of great concern since DM has failed to win an ACC road game in 2 full seasons. A winless road record in year 3 would be unacceptable. You can measure a coach in a lot of ways...recruiting, player development, game planning etc, but in year 3 the only measure that matters is the W/L record. This would include winning on the road and winning a game or 2 that we are not supposed to win. We will have our answer in a couple of months.
 
Richmond was a fairly ugly win against a weak team. At best, it told us nothing. Northwestern was an abortion. If he coaches that way during the games through the rest of the season...yikes.

Does he not believe in timeouts btw?
 
Losing at Northwestern is not a bad loss. WF was a 4 point dog in that game. NW is a solid team; barring injury, they will be in the mix for an NCAA bid. Have a feeling that if WF lost a tight game at MD in the ACC/Big !0 challenge, people wouldn't have freaked as much, but NW is as good as, if not better than, MD this year.
 
The NW staff feels like our program and talent level have definitely improved. They had a plan to shut down Crawford and it worked.
 
Losing at Northwestern is not a bad loss. WF was a 4 point dog in that game. NW is a solid team; barring injury, they will be in the mix for an NCAA bid. Have a feeling that if WF lost a tight game at MD in the ACC/Big !0 challenge, people wouldn't have freaked as much, but NW is as good as, if not better than, MD this year.

For what it's worth (not that I agree with this position, but) I think people have in their heads that Wake should never be a 4 point dog to teams like Northwestern to begin with. So when we lose it feels bad. I think it's just that we had a good decade + where it was a given that we'd pretty much have an undefeated or one loss record going into conference play and generally destroying cupcakes and winning most of the more evenly matched non-con games.

We're on our way there.
 
For what it's worth (not that I agree with this position, but) I think people have in their heads that Wake should never be a 4 point dog to teams like Northwestern to begin with. So when we lose it feels bad. I think it's just that we had a good decade + where it was a given that we'd pretty much have an undefeated or one loss record going into conference play and generally destroying cupcakes and winning most of the more evenly matched non-con games.

We're on our way there.

Perception is reality unfortunately, as has been shown across several spectrums over the past few months.
 
Random post: Whatever coach started this "I thought we....." in every single post game interview should be shot. It drives me nuts. And Danny Manning memorized it better than anyone. Every single sentence after a game starts with "I thought....." and it has become a pet peeve of mine over the years. In fact, coach-speak in general drives me nuts.
 
For what it's worth (not that I agree with this position, but) I think people have in their heads that Wake should never be a 4 point dog to teams like Northwestern to begin with. So when we lose it feels bad. I think it's just that we had a good decade + where it was a given that we'd pretty much have an undefeated or one loss record going into conference play and generally destroying cupcakes and winning most of the more evenly matched non-con games.

We're on our way there.

The line-maker doesn't GAF that NW has traditionally sucked; he leaves that to the ignorant bettor. NW was favored because they are good, and professional gamblers know that they are good; so, if Vegas doesn't set an accurate line the books will go out of business. Being a 4 point dog on the road to a good team is not an indictment of WF.

The point is that it's an ignorant comment to say that "WF should not lose to a team like NW" or that "the NW loss somehow validates the position that Manning is poor coach", when NW is a top 50 team. A lot of good teams are going to lose at NW. The great Shaka Smart lost to NW by 19 this year. Not saying Manning can't be a target of criticism, but if your criticism is based upon a close loss at NW, then you are operating from a flawed premise.
 
Oh I completely agree with all that. Just representing the POV of Wake fans who don't bother to pay attention to the fact that Northwestern isn't shitty anymore.
 
There are tons of ways to get information across the internet/newspaper/however one digests news instead of just being ignorant. It's amazing how even intelligent Wake grads continue to just stick their head in the sand.

If Vegas says a team is 5 points better than another, then you can probably expect that to be pretty damn close, since that's how they make millions of dollars.

I want to beat Northwestern by 20 points too (just like every team out there), but it's just running your head into the wall to "think" that Wake should win by 20 because it says "Northwestern" on their jersey.

2016: FEELINGS OVER FACTS

/soapbox
 
There are tons of ways to get information across the internet/newspaper/however one digests news instead of just being ignorant. It's amazing how even intelligent Wake grads continue to just stick their head in the sand.

If Vegas says a team is 5 points better than another, then you can probably expect that to be pretty damn close, since that's how they make millions of dollars.

I want to beat Northwestern by 20 points too (just like every team out there), but it's just running your head into the wall to "think" that Wake should win by 20 because it says "Northwestern" on their jersey.

2016: FEELINGS OVER FACTS

/soapbox

Agreed
 
A lot of other teams thought the same of Wake, and we said TJDK.

Re Manning: Buckle up and hope for the best because Wellman can't hire anyone any better.
 
Losing at NW is not the disgrace some are making it out to be, but at the same time let's not act like NW is Kansas or UCLA. We're not going to know whether it was a "good" or "bad" loss until the end of the year.
 
Manning still has a long ways to go. One thing he has shown is a top notch recruiting eye. That is something very difficult to learn. We have definitely improved in his 2+ years as head coach. Whether he can take us to the next level remains to be seen but he has taken us out from the depths of BZ. He deserves an opportunity over the next 2-3 years to see if we can take that next step. Count me as someone who thinks we sneak into the tourney this year. I don't see any reason why we can't finish in the middle of the pack in the ACC and if we finish anywhere higher than 10th we are in with our solid non conference schedule. We will our next two games handily and then have a massive showdown with Xavier on a national stage.

Cheer up Wake fans. Danny isn't perfect and he is still learning as a head coach but we are a long ways from where we were even at this point last year.


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Losing at NW is not the disgrace some are making it out to be, but at the same time let's not act like NW is Kansas or UCLA. We're not going to know whether it was a "good" or "bad" loss until the end of the year.

This.

The NW game was so uneven on both sides that it's hard to generate any real conclusions about either team. FWIW, NW isn't going to play a real team until Dayton on Dec 17, and then not again until Mich St on Dec 30. So we won't know much about them until conference season is in full swing. Conversely, after Xavier and LSU, we'll probably have a decent idea of who this Wake team really is.
 
This.

The NW game was so uneven on both sides that it's hard to generate any real conclusions about either team. FWIW, NW isn't going to play a real team until Dayton on Dec 17, and then not again until Mich St on Dec 30. So we won't know much about them until conference season is in full swing. Conversely, after Xavier and LSU, we'll probably have a decent idea of who this Wake team really is.

Notre Dame isn't a real team? They had them on the ropes and blew it on a bad inbounds pass when ND was trying to foul.
 
They're still real to me, dammit!


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Manning still has a long ways to go. One thing he has shown is a top notch recruiting eye. That is something very difficult to learn. We have definitely improved in his 2+ years as head coach. Whether he can take us to the next level remains to be seen but he has taken us out from the depths of BZ. He deserves an opportunity over the next 2-3 years to see if we can take that next step. Count me as someone who thinks we sneak into the tourney this year. I don't see any reason why we can't finish in the middle of the pack in the ACC and if we finish anywhere higher than 10th we are in with our solid non conference schedule. We will our next two games handily and then have a massive showdown with Xavier on a national stage.

Cheer up Wake fans. Danny isn't perfect and he is still learning as a head coach but we are a long ways from where we were even at this point last year.


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Damn, I hope you are right. Admittedly, I haven't seen Deacs play much so far, but I think this is a rosey outlook. The ACC is brutal and if we do finish middle of the pack I would consider that a big success. We would beat some top-15 teams.

I just don't think we are that good as a team yet. We have some of the necessary talent, but our defense is still a big problem and we make a lot of self-inflicted mistakes. Has DM grown enough as an in-game HC to make the necessary adjustments, subs and timeout managment needed to win consistenly? He has proven his ability to recruit and develop players (JC, Dinos, Woods has come in right away and performed, TBD on Doral). I am just not convinced he is ready to beat the ACC's best.

I'm holding my breath until we play in conference. I got fooled last year with our out of conference play.
 
Damn, I hope you are right. Admittedly, I haven't seen Deacs play much so far, but I think this is a rosey outlook. The ACC is brutal and if we do finish middle of the pack I would consider that a big success. We would beat some top-15 teams.

I just don't think we are that good as a team yet. We have some of the necessary talent, but our defense is still a big problem and we make a lot of self-inflicted mistakes. Has DM grown enough as an in-game HC to make the necessary adjustments, subs and timeout managment needed to win consistenly? He has proven his ability to recruit and develop players (JC, Dinos, Woods has come in right away and performed, TBD on Doral). I am just not convinced he is ready to beat the ACC's best.

I'm holding my breath until we play in conference. I got fooled last year with our out of conference play.

Let's be honest, Wake is playing good ball and beating up on the lesser teams as expected. We definitely have talent coming in, but not the same talent as UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, or even NC State.

Coaching still seems like a major question mark to me. Maybe things are happening better in practice, but in game coaching still has a lot to be desired. Hanging on to timeouts like they are gold coins is not a winning strategy and just plain ridiculous. Due to our schedule, we truly will not know what kind of team we have until December rolls around and we play Xavier and LSU. My deepest fear is Danny not progressing as coach and therefore losing out on the recruiting trail. Great coaching is happening right now at Virginia Tech as they already have wins over Texas A&M and Michigan. Maybe Danny will surprised us and deliver upsets in December but I get the feeling there are going to be a lot of upset Deacs by late January.
 
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