• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Tar Holes NOA from the NCAA

SkinsNDeacs said:
By the way, I hate UNC-ch as much as anyone but this is not good for the state of North Carolina and the University of North Carolina system as a whole. I know that a lot of you don't really care about either but this can be nothing but bad for the flagship university to be in danger of losing its accreditation.
Click to expand...

Agree. There is no way that the reputation of the UNC system should be jeopardized for the sake of the TarHeels winning basketball and football games. To me that's the biggest negative to all this.
 
RacerDeac said:
Copying/pasting from this PDF seems to really mess up the format for me, but here's a link to a PDF explaining SACS sanctions. 12 month probation is the max they can do besides removing accreditation based on my quick skim:
http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/081705/SanctionPolicy.pdf

Here's a list of other schools that have been sanctioned by SACS (Warning or Probation) in 2014. That's quite a list of schools for UNC to be associated with:

Click to expand...

I was amazed when I read that list that all of the schools are in the South....then I realized what I was reading. D'OH!

Also...there's a place in SC called Due West, SC?
 
Most of the schools listed above were just warned for financial reasons...UNC stands WAY out among those schools as the worst of the worst. They went from 18 initial items SACS listed in 2011 and are now down to 7. At the end of the 12 months, SACS will come back, investigate again, and determine whether UNC will stay on another year of probation or be cleared. After 24 months of probation, if it goes that far, the only options are to clear UNC or revoke their accreditation.

"It's a big deal," said Belle Whelan, SACS president. "This issue was bigger than anything with which we’ve ever dealt, and it went on for longer than anything else. This is the first one I can recall in the 10 years I’ve been here that we put an institution on probation for academic fraud or academic integrity."
Read more at http://www.wral.com/accrediting-org...month-probation/14704731/#By7J8Uly5ch87pSi.99
Click to expand...
 
This is some of what UNC told SACS in past submissions.

UNC's 2006 SACS Quality Enhancement Plan
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is working to make research, mentored scholarship, and creative performance even more distinctive features of a Carolina undergraduate education. The provision of “high quality undergraduate instruction to students within a community engaged in original inquiry and creative expression” (emphasis added) has been an explicit part of the University’s mission statement since 1994.
Click to expand...

These areas demonstrate the University’s commitment to interdisciplinary work, support for diversity, reliance on ethical behavior, and commitment to public engagement. The proposed enhancements will extend the positive influence of honor and integrity on the teaching and learning process to student involvement in research and discovery both within and beyond the campus.
Click to expand...

During this informal balloting process, other ideas for a Quality Enhancement Plan were presented including:

Enhancing student self-learning through a variety of independent student-centered learning activities.

Ensuring that students are highly competent in thinking, reasoning, and communication skills (written and oral).

Developing skills for lifelong learning, critical thinking, etc.

Ensuring that the free exchange of ideas on campus continues to be encouraged and protected.
Click to expand...

UNC told SACS that they wanted to improve quality by adding more indpendent studiy classes and that its faculty council felt UNC had room for improvement in the area of ensuring student competence.


Some Gems from he 2011 SACS Compliance Review

The most sound compliance program cannot eliminate completely an institution’s vulnerability to inadvertent rules violations. This external review can, however, enhance the institution’s ability to prevent or detect violations and to take appropriate actions should violations occur.
Click to expand...

The organization is structured in such a way that the Chancellor has the ultimate authority in matters involving the athletics department. There appears to be an overall dedication to rules compliance through the department, which is expressed clearly through the Director of Athletics, formally during the yearly State of the Department all staff meeting but informally throughout the year.
Click to expand...

Coaches’ contracts and/or letters of appointments include statements regarding the commitment to rules compliance and coaches are evaluated on their cooperation with compliance procedures.
Click to expand...

Coaches are sent notices of changes to eligibility status but there doesn’t appear to be any notification that they received the notice.
Click to expand...

All tutors provided to student-athletes receive a comprehensive manual and yearly training, both of which include NCAA rules regarding academic fraud. Training sessions are videotaped to allow for training to be conducted at mid-term or as needed. After training and before working with student-athletes tutors must sign a form confirming that they are aware of NCAA rules. Further, tutors must sign a statement confirming if they have knowledge of any activities that are contrary to institutional, conference or NCAA regulations each semester and at the end of their employment. This was a recommendation in 2006.
Click to expand...
The system for self-reporting and investigating appears to be effective and understood by all. There seems to be a clear understanding that all violations and irregularities must be reported to the Compliance Office and coaches and staff interviewed seem comfortable reporting any irregularities to the Compliance Office.
Click to expand...
 
RacerDeac said:
Burn it down. With any hope, the academics over there will grow some balls and actually speak up now.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Holden Thorp expressly stated that he stepped in to fire Butch after it became clear the university's integrity and academic reputation would be affected by the football scandal. SACS probation is a whole 'nother level of humiliation. My hope at this point is that if the NCAA doesn't take UNC athletics to the woodshed, their own on the academics side will.
 
KickballDeac said:
Exactly. Holden Thorp expressly stated that he stepped in to fire Butch after it became clear the university's integrity and academic reputation would be affected by the football scandal. SACS probation is a whole 'nother level of humiliation. My hope at this point is that if the NCAA doesn't take UNC athletics to the woodshed, their own on the academics side will.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it would have to take a severe drop in the US N&R rankings for that to happen. That would depend on UNC's prestige dropping significantly amongst administrators at peer institutions and a major drop in the quality of applicants.

Even then, it's doubtful because it would require students, alumni, UNC administrators, UNC system leadership, and the legislature to agree that UNC needs to sacrifice athletics in order to restore academic integrity.
 
I'll ask again. Any way this factors into the NCAA sanctions?
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
By the way, I hate UNC-ch as much as anyone but this is not good for the state of North Carolina and the University of North Carolina system as a whole. I know that a lot of you don't really care about either but this can be nothing but bad for the flagship university to be in danger of losing its accreditation.
Click to expand...

RacerDeac said:
Burn it down. With any hope, the academics over there will grow some balls and actually speak up now.
Click to expand...

KickballDeac said:
Exactly. Holden Thorp expressly stated that he stepped in to fire Butch after it became clear the university's integrity and academic reputation would be affected by the football scandal. SACS probation is a whole 'nother level of humiliation. My hope at this point is that if the NCAA doesn't take UNC athletics to the woodshed, their own on the academics side will.
Click to expand...

Agreed, agreed, agreed. This is a huge fucking deal. Huge. Carolina is a top research university -- the flagship school of one of the best public school systems in the country -- despite the actions of the terrible state legislature and the idiot fans of their sports teams.

Honestly, I could even see the University very harshly self-sanctioning. Probably won't be anything as drastic as cutting programs, but this is some serious shit. Despite all the good that college athletics do for UNC's brand and coffers, they aren't more important than its educational mission. And I imagine that the people actually in charge of making decisions realize that.
 
PhDeac said:
Honestly, it would have to take a severe drop in the US N&R rankings for that to happen. That would depend on UNC's prestige dropping significantly amongst administrators at peer institutions and a major drop in the quality of applicants.
Click to expand...

Their prestige has taken a big time hit among administrators at peer institutions.
 
PhDeac said:
Honestly, it would have to take a severe drop in the US N&R rankings for that to happen. That would depend on UNC's prestige dropping significantly amongst administrators at peer institutions and a major drop in the quality of applicants.
Click to expand...

But their former chancellor already fired a head coach way back when it was only a renegade tutor and professor affecting no other programs. Big change from the inside doesn't need a severe drop in rankings or quality of applicants. It will happen with enough pissed off administration, faculty and especially alumni.

ETA to clarify I'm not necessarily talking about "sacrificing athletics" in a self-imposed death penalty sense. Quoted you before I saw your addendum.
 
Last edited:
KickballDeac said:
But their former chancellor already fired a head coach way back when it was only a renegade tutor and professor affecting no other programs. Big change from the inside doesn't need a severe drop in rankings or quality of applicants. It will happen with enough pissed off administration, faculty and especially alumni.
Click to expand...

What needs to happen is a long way from firing a head coach. They'd need to admit that UNC athletics has been a problem and it needs to be addressed. That's not just firing. That's rebuilding the pride of the university.
 
Lots of people saying this is a BIG DEAL, then following up by saying something like 'this will impact their reputation among their peers'. :wtf:

This investigation isn't bringing up any new points - it is just a probation based on lots of stuff already known. Seems like any reputation damage was already done when the Weinstein report was issued. Since the SACS's punishment options appear to be limited to meaningless probation (everyone knows you screwed up, but we have no real way of punishing you, so we are going to watch you for 12 months) or pulling the accreditation, this seems like a non-story.
 
PhDeac said:
What needs to happen is a long way from firing a head coach. They'd need to admit that UNC athletics has been a problem and it needs to be addressed. That's not just firing. That's rebuilding the pride of the university.
Click to expand...

Yep. Which will happen with enough pissed off administration, faculty and especially alumni.
 
Here's a list of other schools that have been sanctioned by SACS (Warning or Probation) in 2014. That's quite a list of schools for UNC to be associated with:


That's fucking embarrassing. If this doesn't motivate the faculty to take back their University from the Athletic donks, nothing will. If there is anything that comes out of the SACS decision it might be that admissions tightens and the profs start treating the athletes like real students. The ultimate result may be that Chapel Hill will no longer be a destination point for elite athletes who are not, shall we say, academically inclined.

I don't think this will have any direct impact on the NCAA sanctions other than to give the COI some cover in the event they decide to hammer the shit out of them.
 
I personally would love to see their teams get the death penalty, but that's mainly to shut up all the tarheel fans that I know. It's the worst case of academic fraud EVER, but somehow they are going to get off with a lighter sentence than other schools who cheated much less than they did?

This accreditation issue feels unsatisfying. Sure, watching the school go out of business would be entertaining for sports-hate reasons, but I agree it's not what's best for the state or the thousands of students who are getting a good education there.

What I actually want, and what a lot of people want, is for sanctimonious Carolina assholes to STFU. For years. I don't want to have to spend the next 10 years listening to them babble about how great their team is, then I bust out the "sure but can they read" comment - that's going to get old. I really just don't want to hear them at all.

So what punishment achieves THAT? 1. Death penalty - best choice. 2. vacating all the old wins and banners - unfortunately, they have already enjoyed them and probably will have more someday. 3. non-death penalty punishments - forcing them to play with shitty players. Reduction in scholarships, maybe require them to have a 3.5 GPA for all their players, without independent studies.

I just want them all to SHUT UP. I'd take a punishment where every Carolina fan in America can't talk about basketball for 2 years.

In summary, eff Carolina.
 
Obviously ancillary to the main things, but would love to see UNC women's soccer get a postseason ban, ending their streak of playing in every NCAA tournament ever held
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top