ACC embarrassment

Due to his weakness as a commissioner, John Swofford, has enabled a convicted renegade cheater to participate in an ACC football championship. Further this cheater is now under a new indictment for cheating for more than 20 years. It's a national embarrassment. It's a disgrace.

He also got ND half-pregnant in football so I can't be too mad at him.

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article46787900.html

Perspective from a tenured professor sitting in an endowed chair.

Well, the ACC put up with the academic embarrassment that is Clemson football for decades. So, what can you expect?

There are differences between J-walking or speeding and armed robbery. Clemson football has been armed robbery category since the days of Danny Ford; while UNC formally and openly joined this club under Butch Davis.

bobknightfan said:

LOL at all the righteous indignation. There is nothing left but money whores in P-5 level college football & basketball today. The days of true amateur student-athlete competition in those two sports ended years ago. You can have varying levels of transgressions....but you can't be just a little bit pregnant. Everyone who aspires to compete in the P-5 conference money sports of football & basketball is guilty in one way or another. Continue to follow this abomination if you wish....but don't stick your head in the sand and think that any of the schools' football or basketball programs in these 5 conferences are clean.

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Everyone? Your evidence? How about some facts. UNC is a convicted cheater and is currently under indictment. In your bizarre world, their conviction and indictment means every other P5 is guilty also. Let's start with just one institution you are familiar with. Please provide the evidence Wake Forest University is guilty of NCAA violations. Or retract your statement. All Muslims are terrorists. All corporations are corrupt. All African Americans are on welfare. All democrats are liberals. Now you begin to see your assertion is groundless.

sailordeac said:

There are differences between J-walking or speeding and armed robbery. Clemson football has been armed robbery category since the days of Danny Ford; while UNC formally and openly joined this club under Butch Davis.

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I haven't heard about any investigations or suspicions coming out of Clemson lately?

bobknightfan said:

LOL at all the righteous indignation. There is nothing left but money whores in P-5 level college football & basketball today. The days of true amateur student-athlete competition in those two sports ended years ago. You can have varying levels of transgressions....but you can't be just a little bit pregnant. Everyone who aspires to compete in the P-5 conference money sports of football & basketball is guilty in one way or another. Continue to follow this abomination if you wish....but don't stick your head in the sand and think that any of the schools' football or basketball programs in these 5 conferences are clean.

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I thought this was boobknightfan

bobknightfan said:

I said "in one way or another" with "varying levels of transgressions", mack. Are you one of the guys on this board who has been constantly crying for "more academic exceptions" at WF in order to compete at a P-5 level? Admitting players who would not qualify otherwise as students is just another subtle way of cheating.....and all P-5 schools are doing it with their football & basketball programs. Obviously, some schools are guilty of much more serious cheating than other schools, but as I said....you can't be just a little bit pregnant. Either you are cheating or you are not cheating. And admitting someone just because he is a good football or basketball player but would not otherwise be admitted to the school is a form of cheating.

The bottom line for me...as far as it applies to WF and the sordid world of big-time college football & basketball today....is really twofold: 1) Anyone who thinks that WF can compete in the money-driven sewer that P-5 football & basketball has become today is FOS, but even more importantly, 2) Anyone who thinks that WF should even try to compete in this bastardization of what was once "honest amateur student-athlete competition as entertainment while getting an education" is even worse. The tail is now wagging the dog at these schools.

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Academic exceptions have nothing to do with cheating. Wake has given exceptions to legacy kids for at least fifty years. In addition talented artists to tuba players have been given exceptions. If you could provide a shred of evidence that every P5 academic institution is in violation of NCAA rules you might make some sense. Otherwise your opinions constitute pure bull shit. It's just really stupid.

siff said:

I thought this was boobknightfan

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I always have to double check.

By the way, you think the ACC is embarrassing, forgeting to put on your Depends and pooping in your pants, now that's embarrassing.

Just curious as to what the ACC should've done.

Penalized UNC before the NCAA ruled?

Waited to see if UNC was going to the ACCCG and then penalized them by barring their participation?

FWIW, want to see UNC go down hard, but don't think that there is any other Power V conference (certainly not the SEC or Big 12) that would've sanctioned a conference member before the NCAA determined what penalties to levy. In the rare cases when a conference punishes its own, usually happens after the NCAA rules.

Personally, I am happy that the ACCCG game is between two teams that have had good/great years. If the ACCCG was Clemson v. Pitt, that would've sucked.

O

bobknightfan said:

If you do not believe that applying stated & written rules differently to some people for the sole purpose of gaining a competitive advantage is a form of cheating, we will just have to agree to disagree.

As far as making academic exceptions in order to better compete goes, Zig Ziglar probably said it best:

"When a company or an individual compromises one time, whether it's on price or principle, the next compromise is right around the corner."


The bottom line for people on this board like you, mack, is this: You just want to win....and you are not concerned about sacrificing your principles in order to do that. Academic exceptions are just a first easy step in that direction.

The hypocrisy involved with posters' attitudes toward winning at all costs in sports and their haughty academic arrogance toward the idea of accepting West Virginia in the ACC, for example, is off the charts. Of course, these are pampered people who have been accustomed to having their cake and eating it, too, all of their lives....so I guess it is to be expected.

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Why are you so biased against athletes? And why do you ignore that fact that Wake Forest gives academic exceptions to all kinds of gifted prospects. Under your dumb system the next Bach or Picasso should not get in Wake because they don't meet your "written" rules for admission that don't exist. It's why we have an admissions dept. I can't tell you how many of my fellow Wake grads have said "Wake took a chance on me." It's more than a few. I have already mentioned the legacy admissions. Your problem is you just make shit up like its fact.

macktheknife said:

O

Why are you so biased against athletes? And why do you ignore that fact that Wake Forest gives academic exceptions to all kinds of gifted prospects. Under your dumb system the next Bach or Picasso should not get in Wake because they don't meet your "written" rules for admission that don't exist. It's why we have an admissions dept. I can't tell you how many of my fellow Wake grads have said "Wake took a chance on me." It's more than a few. I have already mentioned the legacy admissions. Your problem is you just make shit up like its fact.

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Well, I was constantly getting beat up and having my girlfriends stolen by members of the sports teams in high school, so there's that.

Pilchard said:

Just curious as to what the ACC should've done.

Penalized UNC before the NCAA ruled?

Waited to see if UNC was going to the ACCCG and then penalized them by barring their participation?

FWIW, want to see UNC go down hard, but don't think that there is any other Power V conference (certainly not the SEC or Big 12) that would've sanctioned a conference member before the NCAA determined what penalties to levy. In the rare cases when a conference punishes its own, usually happens after the NCAA rules.

Personally, I am happy that the ACCCG game is between two teams that have had good/great years. If the ACCCG was Clemson v. Pitt, that would've sucked.

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You're attempting to bring logic to a Mack thread with bkf responding?

boobknightfan said:

so there's that.

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Now it's abundantly clear who is behind this one.

bobknightfan said:

If you do not believe that applying stated & written rules differently to some people for the sole purpose of gaining a competitive advantage is a form of cheating, we will just have to agree to disagree.

As far as making academic exceptions in order to better compete goes, Zig Ziglar probably said it best:

"When a company or an individual compromises one time, whether it's on price or principle, the next compromise is right around the corner."


The bottom line for people on this board like you, mack, is this: You just want to win....and you are not concerned about sacrificing your principles in order to do that. Academic exceptions are just a first easy step in that direction.

The hypocrisy involved with posters' attitudes toward winning at all costs in sports and their haughty academic arrogance toward the idea of accepting West Virginia in the ACC, for example, is off the charts. Of course, these are pampered people who have been accustomed to having their cake and eating it, too, all of their lives....so I guess it is to be expected.

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You only have 195 posts now but your rep stayed the same. Did you really go back and delete literally every post you didn't get a pos rep on?

bobknightfan said:

I said "in one way or another" with "varying levels of transgressions", mack. Are you one of the guys on this board who has been constantly crying for "more academic exceptions" at WF in order to compete at a P-5 level? Admitting players who would not qualify otherwise as students is just another subtle way of cheating.....and all P-5 schools are doing it with their football & basketball programs. Obviously, some schools are guilty of much more serious cheating than other schools, but as I said....you can't be just a little bit pregnant. Either you are cheating or you are not cheating. And admitting someone just because he is a good football or basketball player but would not otherwise be admitted to the school is a form of cheating.

The bottom line for me...as far as it applies to WF and the sordid world of big-time college football & basketball today....is really twofold: 1) Anyone who thinks that WF can compete in the money-driven sewer that P-5 football & basketball has become today is FOS, but even more importantly, 2) Anyone who thinks that WF should even try to compete in this bastardization of what was once "honest amateur student-athlete competition as entertainment while getting an education" is even worse. The tail is now wagging the dog at these schools.

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Don't forget that private and public colleges admit kids below academic standards when their benefactors have something else of value than athletic ability: money and/or power. There is a huge difference between admitting the sub par academic student into college and running a sham academic program for athletes to maintain eligibility to play. The first devalues admission standards. The second devalues the diploma. Wake does not cheat on the NCAA rules. Many others do. And creating majors that are very easy, as others do, is not cheating the NCAA. It may be considered "cheating" because it devalues the diploma but it is really not cheating. If you channel athletes into easy majors where no work is required for student or athlete then that cheats the NCAA and the diploma. Not all P5 schools do this but most all have created majors typically as easy as the easiest curriculums at the community and technical college level which is not an NCAA violation as far as I can tell. If so, then all are "cheating" as you say which leads to your main point: WF supporters are naive to think WF can really compete in football without creating easy as pie majors for student and for athlete. Hence, Hatch never suggests WF will ever be dominant in football. The PWB and all the stakeholders will not budge on the issue of devaluing the WF diploma. It will not be devalued under the current power structure.

bobknightfan said:

What the hell are you even talking about? In the first place, you can't simply look at a post and know what kind of reps you got on that post. And in the second place, do you think it is possible to get 8,816 net positive rep points (I get a helluva lot of negative hate reps, too ) on 195 posts? (If you delete a post, the reps...positive or negative...are not deleted as a rest of deleting the post.)

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Why do you go back and delete your posts?

sailordeac said:

There are differences between J-walking or speeding and armed robbery. Clemson football has been armed robbery category since the days of Danny Ford; while UNC formally and openly joined this club under Butch Davis.

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Exactly!! I try to explain this to people all the time. Oh but the high and mighty "Carolina Way" idiots just cant seem to grasp this.