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WF ACC FT Shooting

bobknightfan said:
There is no excuse for a person who has been given a D1 scholarship making less than 70% of his free throws. None. Zilch. End of discussion.
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Dwayne Bacon
Devin Thomas
Michael Gbinije
Brandon Ingram
Zach Auguste
Chinanu Onuaku

These are all players that will likely be on All-ACC teams that shoot under 70%.

At some point in time it's just a "what do you want to accomplish with your practice time"? Let's say that practice could help Devin Thomas shoot better from the free throw line (and that's a big IF at this point), I will give him 1% for every 3 hours of free throw practice time. To get to 70% from the free throw line he would need to put in 36 hours of practice. I don't think it's worth practicing that much for such a negligible difference in his game at this point.

We all WANT him to be better, but just assuming you put in the time and that makes you better is just a fallacy that people continue to believe in. Does practice help people shoot better? Of course, if you aren't already maximizing the top of your ability then it will help tremendously.
 
I think Bob's saying there's no excuse for a Div I player, P5 moreso, to come in shooting less than 70%. The fact that there are such players -- good players -- is pretty much an indictment of the game today. An under 70% star player should be a rarity.
 
Overall FT% for college basketball has been basically the same for over 50 years.
 
Lohengrin said:
I think Bob's saying there's no excuse for a Div I player, P5 moreso, to come in shooting less than 70%. The fact that there are such players -- good players -- is pretty much an indictment of the game today. An under 70% star player should be a rarity.
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No, it's just a common misconception that old white guys talk about to say how much better the game was a few years ago (with thinly veiled racism). This isn't intended at BKF, just the overall talking point is noise that isn't based in facts.

2014 was the best year in college basketball history for FT%.

I’ve tweeted about this a couple times, but it’s worth documenting in a more permanent location: This season, free throws were shot at a better rate than in any previous season in the history of college basketball. To date, my calculations indicate that D-I teams have made 69.82 percent of their attempts from the free throw line. According to the NCAA record book, the previous best was the 69.7 percent made in the 1979 season.

It’s an odd phenomenon, but analysts, journalists, and coaches appear to be programmed to bash fundamentals. That’s another subject deserving of its own article, but criticizing modern free-throw shooting has always been a dubious exercise within that realm. After all, that’s one fundamental we can measure, and free-throw percentage has essentially been constant for the last 50 years.

But my perception is that most people in the game feel like free-throw shooting was better way back when. And if people can’t get that right, one should be skeptical when other fundamentals are criticized. Are players really worse at setting screens, or scoring with their off hand than they were 30 years ago? I think it’s reasonable to wonder whether we’ve been lied to all along about those things as well.

An interesting issue regarding the free-throw record is that there was a fairly significant rise from last season, when hoopsters made a respectable 69.31% of their attempts, the fourth-best season ever. One might wonder just how much the new rules interpretations were responsible for the increase in free-throw accuracy. After all, shorter players tend to be better free-throw shooters, and if guards were getting fouled more often due to increased hand-checking calls, it stands to reason that free-throw percentage will increase as a result.
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So there's no excuse for a D-I player to "every shoot below 70%" yet the highest recorded season all around is 69.82%?

Sounds like 70% is probably pretty high of a cut-off there BKF.
 
Not sure its fair to set a mark like 70% as every player is different, but it does boggle the mind that our two seniors failed to materially improve from the FT line over their 4 years at WF.

CMM shot 57% from the line as a frosh (which is particularly poor for a guard) and is shooting 58% this year. In his best year, CMM shot 64% from the line which again is poor for guard (particularly for a guard who's game is predicated on getting to the line).

DT shot 55% from the line as a frosh, and is shooting 58% this year. In his best year, DT shot 59% from the line.

By way of example, Clemson's Jaron Blossomgame of Clemson shot 60% as a frosh, and he shoots 77% as a junior, and Jordan Roper shot 64% from the line as frosh; he shoots 80% as a senior.

Miami's Angel Rodriguez shot 69% as a frosh; 80% as a senior.

UNC's Brice Johnson shot 57% as a frosh; 79% as a senior: Kennedy Meeks 58% as a frosh; 69% as a junior; GT's Marques Georges Hunt 63% as a frosh; 83% as a senior.

Just very frustrating that our upperclassmen failed to show any improvement (when there was plenty of room) over the past 4 years.
 
Right, the lack of improvement is what we should be harping on, not the fact that EVERYBODY CAN'T SHOOT 70%!!!!!!
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Overall FT% for college basketball has been basically the same for over 50 years.
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No disputing that the average for college basketball overall is roughly the same as it ever was. But it does seem like Wake Forest teams used to shoot free throws at a higher percentage than they do now. But I haven't looked at the stats to see if that's actually true.
 
Its almost as if our players (a) were not that highly regarded to start with and (b) have not been surrounded by good coaching while they were at Wake.
 
Well this Wake team has certainly been god awful at FTs in ACC play.

Since 1960 the lowest overall FT% in college basketball has been ~67% and the highest has been ~70%.
 
Why are we still arguing this? bkf said "End of discussion."

Shaquille O'Neal would have been a great Division II player.
 
Wow! I'm surprise we're at or near the bottom in free throw shooting give our current standings in the ACC.
 
I didn't say it wasn't happening. (Poor free throw shooting) I just said there was no excuse for it. And why is DeacsFan27 trying to make this a racial issue? Charlie Davis made 64 out of the first 67 free throws he attempted as a freshman at Wake Forest. And for some of you who may never have heard of Charlie Davis, he was a black guy.

I'm not saying that everyone should shoot free throws as well as CD, but there should be nothing difficult about shooting free throws. You are standing in the same place every time...15 feet from the basket...and nobody is guarding you. Just because you may be good in other areas of the game is no excuse for being a shitty free throw shooter.
 
Welp, the NBA does say it doesn't matter. And, I know this will be a shocker, many are not playing for the love of the game they are playing for a big pay day. Kids are going to work on what is going to get them paid and the best FT shooter in the world will not be drafted if he doesn't have the rest of the package. I've also never heard of a guy dropping in the draft because he can't shoot FT's.
 
bobknightfan said:
There is no excuse for a person who has been given a D1 scholarship making less than 70% of his free throws. None. Zilch. End of discussion.
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Yes. I coached freaking rec league for 20 years and none of my teams shot less than 60%. These were 4th through 8th graders, people. There is a way to shoot from the line and once you learn it you will make at least 75%. The kids that didn't just weren't trying. It's mostly just flexing from the knees so your legs do most of the work and, as we all say, waving goodbye (meaning giving the ball backspin). This ain't rocket science.
 
ericstratton said:
Yes. I coached freaking rec league for 20 years and none of my teams shot less than 60%. These were 4th through 8th graders, people. There is a way to shoot from the line and once you learn it you will make at least 75%. The kids that didn't just weren't trying. It's mostly just flexing from the knees so your legs do most of the work and, as we all say, waving goodbye (meaning giving the ball backspin). This ain't rocket science.
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There's nothing about this post that isn't just fantastic.
 
Deac83 said:
Welp, the NBA does say it doesn't matter. And, I know this will be a shocker, many are not playing for the love of the game they are playing for a big pay day. Kids are going to work on what is going to get them paid and the best FT shooter in the world will not be drafted if he doesn't have the rest of the package. I've also never heard of a guy dropping in the draft because he can't shoot FT's.
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And attitudes like that are why the game sucks. It's too fucking much trouble to learn something as simple as how to shoot a free throw.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
No, it's just a common misconception that old white guys talk about to say how much better the game was a few years ago (with thinly veiled racism). This isn't intended at BKF, just the overall talking point is noise that isn't based in facts.

2014 was the best year in college basketball history for FT%.
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Sorry, DeacsFan27, but it definitely appears as though you've tried to make this a racial issue. Whatever the case, free throw shooting can CAN be taught. Our staff simply isn't doing a very good job in this regard. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/15/sports/basketball/15boren.html?_r=0
 
bobknightfan said:
And attitudes like that are why the game sucks. It's too fucking much trouble to learn something as simple as how to shoot a free throw.
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How do you reconcile this with the fact that free throw shooting is at an all time best and nba players shoot jump shots better than ever?
 
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