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NBA moving 2017 ASG out of CLT

qcdeac said:
I know people find it fun to pile on 2&2, but this isn't a bad take. He appears to be blaming the NC Legislature a lot more than the City Council.
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I agree to an extent. The City Council of Charlotte does have the power to create such an ordinance, if the reasoning was to provide safety for a certain group of people. The legal definition of Ordinance is "An ordinance is a law enacted by a municipal body, such as a city council or county commission (sometimes called county council or county board of supervisors). Ordinances govern matters not already covered by state or federal laws such as zoning, safety and building regulations." If they had public hearings at a Council meeting and repeatedly had someone (or likely multiple people) get up to speak on the issue and they had proper reasoning to believe that this was a safety concern, they did have the right to enact this ordinance. The part where I agree with him is where the NC Legislature went completely overboard in the opposite direction, making a law that not only reversed the City of Charlotte's decision but added other discriminatory laws on top of that in the same bill. A lot of people aren't 100% familiar with how local government works. It's not a partisan organization, they don't make decisions based on "hey, look at us - we're so PC" they make decisions based on what will make the city itself better. There are very, VERY few opportunities for a City Council to make a partisan decision.
 
I agree with a large part of 2 & 2's take, except:

- The purpose of City Council goes way beyond overseeing City Zoning Variances. The City Council's purpose is to run the day to day operations of the City. That gives the City Council a broad range to govern: safety/law enforcement, transportation, procurement, economic development.
- Also, can't call the NBA's decision stupid. The State Law threw the gauntlet down, and with the All-Star game as a major event scheduled for the State of NC, the NBA was forced to either move the game or explain why they kept the game in Charlotte despite this asinine law. If the NBA fails to move the game, proponents of the idiotic law would say "see, the passage of the law had no material impact of the State's ability to attract high profile national events". The loss of the All-Star game is a big deal. People are talking about the issue again, which is exactly what the NBA wanted when it made this decision as the NBA is generally getting credit for not scheduling a high profile event in a State with a discriminatory law.
 
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Blaming the Charlotte City Council reminds me of blaming women victimized by sexual assault due to them having "asked for it." The Charlotte City Council is the elected body that effectively governs the City (Mayor isn't that powerful an office). They determined that in the City of Charlotte they would grant greater LGBTQ protections. It was then the General Assembly that decided to overreact and overreach. So conservative of them. I am shocked, shocked I tell you that the party of small government and deferring to the smallest municipal unit wherever possible (as opposed to the big bad federal government) would step in to overturn a law passed by the godless heathens in Charlotte.
 
 
Pilchard said:
I agree with a large part of 2 & 2's take, except:

- The purpose of City Council goes way beyond overseeing City Zoning Variances. The City Council's purpose is to run the day to day operations of the City. That gives the City Council a broad range to govern: safety/law enforcement, transportation, procurement, economic development.
- Also, can't call the NBA's decision stupid. The State Law threw the gauntlet down, and with the All-Star game as a major event scheduled for the State of NC, the NBA was forced to either move the game or explain why they kept the game in Charlotte despite this asinine law. If the NBA fails to move the game, proponents of the idiotic law would say "see, the passage of the law had no material impact of the State's ability to attract high profile national events". The loss of the All-Star game is a big deal. People are talking about the issue again, which is exactly what the NBA wanted when it made this decision as the NBA is generally getting credit for not scheduling a high profile event in a State with a discriminatory law.
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With respect to your first point, as you say, all of those are day-to-day issues. They aren't social statements. Again, to my knowledge there were no actual studies done on CLT bathroom violence against transgenders, nor was there any CMPD input on this issue. This was completely a social statement and nothing more based on nothing more than minimal anecdotal evidence. Which is completely outside of their wheelhouse. Can they technically legally pass it - sure. But again, they need to expect the ramifications, which they clearly did not.

Listen, I know most of the members of the CLT council and have presented in front of them many times. By and large, they are not smart people and do not deal with overly complicated matters. Most of them got elected because they put up the most lawn signs in their district. They are nice enough and mean well enough, but this issue was about 10,000 feet over their heads. Like most government organizations and elected officials, their priority is increasing their own personal feeling of self-importance.

As to your second point, the AllStar game has absolutely nothing to do with HB2. It does not affect private business, so both the NBA and the surrounding restaurants/bars/hotels are not affected either way. Assuming the NBA is concerned about TWC Arena itself (and I don't know if HB2 would even apply to TWC Arena anyway), how many transgenders were planning on attending the AllStar game - 3? TWC arena has multiple single-occupancy unisex bathrooms to service those few individuals if they were uncomfortable going to the restroom of their birth gender to the extent TWC Arena has dong-checkers enforcing HB2, which I have never seen there. This whole thing is a non-issue in reality for a multitude of reasons.

Every state throws down the gauntlet with laws that offend one group or another with differing interests (rich/poor, black/white, straight/gay, whatever). What the NBA has done is open itself up to future scrutiny/criticism from every group aggrieved by any law whatsoever. So when NY passes the anti-bigass-soda law, fatties can protest the NBA playing in the Garden; or when Cali excludes Asians from the affirmative action plan for state universities, now the NBA has to react. Just horrible precedent setting behavior in response to a law that has no teeth and will never be enforced anyway.
 
Meh

Seems like fake reasons to be mad about it
 
We could play the game on Buckets' home court. He probably has enough seating.
 
So was the NBA just not paying attention to LGBT issues last year when they awarded Charlotte the All-Star Game? 3 months before the NBA awarded the All-Star Game to Charlotte, the Charlotte City Council voted against the "bathroom ordinance".
 
BiffTannen said:
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Fucking up the 77 Toll Road was going to be his legacy. I think he swung for the fences with HB2 in an effort to get the Toll Road stink off of him.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
With respect to your first point, as you say, all of those are day-to-day issues. They aren't social statements. Again, to my knowledge there were no actual studies done on CLT bathroom violence against transgenders, nor was there any CMPD input on this issue. This was completely a social statement and nothing more based on nothing more than minimal anecdotal evidence. Which is completely outside of their wheelhouse. Can they technically legally pass it - sure. But again, they need to expect the ramifications, which they clearly did not.

Listen, I know most of the members of the CLT council and have presented in front of them many times. By and large, they are not smart people and do not deal with overly complicated matters. Most of them got elected because they put up the most lawn signs in their district. They are nice enough and mean well enough, but this issue was about 10,000 feet over their heads. Like most government organizations and elected officials, their priority is increasing their own personal feeling of self-importance.
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The City Council doesn't just make blind decisions for their city? They almost always act on the advice of either the city manager, assistant city managers, deputy city manager, director of whichever department is involved in the decision (planning, public works, transportation, etc.). I can guarantee you they didn't make this decision without A LOT of recommendations and counsel from many different people. As for expecting ramifications - I'm sure they did but not to the extent that actually occurred.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
My take hasn't changed, this entire fiasco is just complete stupidity by everyone involved. The Charlotte City Council acted way outside their normal sphere of activity (which is primarily just granting/denying zoning variances) to enact an ordinance to address a "problem" that had absolutely, positively zero factual necessity in a blatant attempt to say "hey, look at us! we're so PC progressive!" The NC Legislature then doubled down on stupid by going completely overboard in the opposite direction and made themselves look even more ridiculous via their asinine attempts to rationalize their position. Now the NBA has tripled down on stupid by moving an extremely large event that their greatest ambassador and the overall face of their sport spent large amounts of capital to acquire, over the blocking of an ordinance that all but of a handful of other cities don't have either. So from now on are they only going to play games in cities that have enacted ordinances like the CLT ordinance? That would leave them with like 6 teams. And it sets a precedent that they need to avoid places with problematic/discriminatory laws in general ... so are they going to do a full review of all applicable city and state laws of every place they play games?

So it has come full circle to the CLT Council, who loses their economic boon because of their own egos. So in some sense they got what they deserved. I, however, am pissed because I was looking forward to the events themselves. So this just reinforces my position that 95% of all politicians are complete fucking morons.
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This times a billion.

And the economic boon is way overstated. A couple local businesses sell a few more drinks and hotel rooms for a couple days while the city pays more OT to its employees to deal with all of that and the run-up to it. I remember when Atlanta hosted the Super Bowl back in the 90s and they didn't make shit. Then look at what they gave up to get the Super Bowl more recently http://www.myajc.com/news/sports/football/inside-atlantas-super-bowl-bid-nfl-sought-got-a-lo/nrY4G/ I'm sure Charlotte made similar concessions on a lesser scale. Fuck the NBA and its phony social stance. I look forward to the first tranny trying to play in the WNBA and seeing them do backflips to make that not happen.
 
McCrory pretty much called his shot on what was gonna happen if they rammed that ordinance through
 
qcdeac said:
Fucking up the 77 Toll Road was going to be his legacy. I think he swung for the fences with HB2 in an effort to get the Toll Road stink off of him.
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That 77 toll road only matters to those who reside in the suburbs and exurbs of Cornelius, Davidson, and Mooresville. Real Charlotteans like you and me don't really care about those people.
 
qcdeac said:
So was the NBA just not paying attention to LGBT issues last year when they awarded Charlotte the All-Star Game? 3 months before the NBA awarded the All-Star Game to Charlotte, the Charlotte City Council voted against the "bathroom ordinance".
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Exactly. This is basically the NBA getting led by the nose by the unemployed millennial clowns who spend all day on social media voicing their PC outrage du jour at whatever is trending on twitter. Should HB2 be overturned - yes. Should the NBA have paid any attention whatsoever to it - absolutely not. I look forward to the NBA's comprehensive analysis of and subsequent reaction to every state and city's idiotic laws (not to mention those at the federal level).
 
So you think Adam Silver was led by a bunch of "millennial clowns". That is frickin hilarious.
 
TheReff said:
Because they say HE in the Bible.
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What about the fact that in the original Greek God is referred to as female (at least by analogy) in each of Genesis, Psalms, Luke, Hosea, Deuteronomy, Isaiah and Matthew? Or that Genesis 1:26-27 in the original Greek refers to the diety/dieties as both male and female that that humans were made in their image? Or the fact that Jewish philosophy, the precursor the Christianity, doesn't prescribe a gender to God? Or the fact that in Christianity the only place where God is a masculine is in the God the Son portion of the Holy Trinity given the fact that the other two portions of the Trinity lack a body (and the Holy Spirit is referred to as feminine in Hebrew in the Old Testament)?

ETA: Don't mean to derail the thread and this is obviously an oversimplification, but good grief people are dense.
 
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By way of further example:

Georgia has a "religious freedom" law that allows LGBT discrimination on religious grounds. Still playing games in the ATL?

Michigan allows child welfare agencies to refuse to place children with same-sex couples if ti conflicts with religious beliefs. I assume games in Detroit are off the list.

28 states do not prohibit LGBT discrimination in housing. That knocks out Orlando, Miami, San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, Cleveland, OKC, Phoenix, Philly (suck it, Townie), Memphis, New Orleans, Detroit (again, yes), Indianapolis, and probably a few more.

Utah, Oklahoma, and Texas prohibit teachers from discussing homosexuality in school. SLC, OKC, and the Texas cities are all out again.

Oklahoma and Tennessee allow healthcare professionals to deny service to LGBT patients on religious grounds. OKC and Memphis represent again.

That took about 20 seconds on Google to look up the most obvious laws. So where can the NBA now play? The bastion of tolerance known as Boston? Silver really stepped in some shit with this one.
 
Do you think there's a difference between a state having a law banning X and a state not having a law expressly permitting X?
 
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