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HB2 Strikes Again

It's pretty revealing to try and defend HB2 by drawing a comparison to the TX anti-sodomy statute which was explicitly declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court (and the TX penal code includes a note to that effect). It was struck down over a decade ago. Guess we'll have to let the courts sort out HB2 the same way. And it's a little tougher than usual to say courts shouldn't strike down democratically enacted laws when your law struck down a democratically enacted law.
 
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I love how nearly every proponent of the law thinks it is black and white as penises and vaginas. Lots of critical thinking on display around here.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
That's because it's unenforceable and has been admitted as such.

Why do people pass unenforceable laws? Political grandstanding maybe?
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Pure political theater to rile up the base.

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StrickDeac said:
A giant "oh look at me" pissing match between the Republicans in Raleigh and the Democrats in Charlotte is costing everyone in NC.

1. Charlotte Democrats take action when in all honestly they didn't need to. "LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE!!!11"
2. Pisses off Republicans. "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!1"
3. Raleigh takes action and passes stupid bill. "HA TOLD YOU SO"
4. NC is doomed.

I hate politicians.
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This is accurate. Great use of the political process.
 
StrickDeac said:
A giant "oh look at me" pissing match between the Republicans in Raleigh and the Democrats in Charlotte is costing everyone in NC.

1. Charlotte Democrats take action when in all honestly they didn't need to. "LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE!!!11"
2. Pisses off Republicans. "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!1"
3. Raleigh takes action and passes stupid bill. "HA TOLD YOU SO"
4. NC is doomed.

I hate politicians.
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So there's no value in legally recognizing the rights of the LGBT community?

The argument I keep hearing is that Charlotte was supposed to be satisfied with the status quo (no legal protection for transgender individuals) because our backwards General Assembly had threatened to make it worse if they tried anything.

So basically it's ok for big government to bully local government in the name of political incorrectness, but not ok for private businesses to bully government in the name of political correctness (fuck capitalism I guess).
 
The only way it makes any sense to blame this on Charlotte is if you admit NC Republicans are completely nonsensical at the moment and that democrats should have known better than to piss them off.
 
If a person is actually the gender he/she wants to be and not the gender of his/her birth, he/she must be permitted to compete in the gender of his/her chosen identity. To argue that that might create a competitive advantage is to admit that that person is not actually the gender he/she prefers. If that is the case he/she should be required to use the bathroom/shower/locker room that fits his/her actual gender.

There is no rational argument for arguing transgender bathroom rights and denying those same rights in competitive collegiate athletics.
 
Actually the NCAA does allow FTM athletes to compete as long as they aren't taking testosterone or any other banned substance.
I believe Harvard had a FTM on the swimming team.
 
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pourdeac said:
Complete lack of logic? Bathrooms were called 'mens' and 'woman' in lieu of "penis" and "vagina". The facilities are practical. They aren't some sort of "man cave" and "princess palace". Since that's the case, how is it illogical to expect all penises to go to one and all vaginas to go to the other? No one is being denied a bathroom. No one is being denied the specific facilities inside the bathroom that they'd use in the OTHER bathroom. If nothing is being denied, where is the discrimination? That illogical? One argument I've heard is that it shouldn't matter where people go to the bathroom. The very argument people put out that it's discrimination is that it matters for one group. Seems hypocritical to me. Again, illogical?

There are legit logical understandable arguments coming from both sides. The absurd knee-jerk extremism including these boycotts is what is ridiculous...over a freaking bathroom. SJW extremism for the "W"! Rational discourse gets the "L".
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Ok so why do people with vaginas who look like, dress like, and identify as men belong in the women's room. In other words, what's the reason for using sex organs to determine which restroom you belong in? Especially in women's rooms where everyone's in stalls anyways?
 
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tintinisahottie said:
Ultimately, we acknowledge that there are innate differences between male and female, it's not just a mental choice, and we will draw random lines at what makes you a bigot (not liking transgenders in your daughter's bathroom, bigot. Not liking transgenders in your daughter's sport, cool)
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There are innate differences. The question is in which situations are the differences important? I think saying they are important in sports and not important what sex organ the person in a closed door stall had at birth is a completely logical distinction
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I agree with you on that, they shouldn't. But that also doesn't absolve that municipality from fault when their ordinance backfires in today's political client when they should have reasonably known how said outsiders in Raleigh would react and McCrory told them in advance how they would react. Discretion and selectivity is a major part of any political position, and stupid is as stupid does.
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So let's pretend we're in 1960. Charlotte says it's going to pass a law integrating schools. The state threatens to respond with some draconian ordinance entrenching segregation.

Would we say it's Charlotte's "fault?" Even if they knew what would happen?
 
StrickDeac said:
Why do we sleep during the night and work during the day?

Some things are common sense. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here folks.
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There are millions of people in the US who work nights by choice.
 
The worst part of all this back and forth is no one addresses the real problem. I know trans people. Apparently most of you don't. We just had a fundraiser in downtown Winston to help a good friend get the needed surgery to go from female to male. He's an awesome person. And has taken unnecessary ridicule from idiots. I choose to support my fellow citizens. Let people live and give them lawful protections they and all of us deserve.
 
StrickDeac said:
Why do we sleep during the night and work during the day?

Some things are common sense. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here folks.
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Sorry, I meant to say men. Why is it preferable to have someone who looks like a man and has a vagina in the women's restroom as opposed to someone who looks like a woman and has a penis? The other people in the women's restroom aren't going into the stall to see what's under the clothes. But they will see what's on the outside.
 
mebanedeac said:
If a person is actually the gender he/she wants to be and not the gender of his/her birth, he/she must be permitted to compete in the gender of his/her chosen identity. To argue that that might create a competitive advantage is to admit that that person is not actually the gender he/she prefers. If that is the case he/she should be required to use the bathroom/shower/locker room that fits his/her actual gender.

There is no rational argument for arguing transgender bathroom rights and denying those same rights in competitive collegiate athletics.
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Are you sure about that? To be accurate, describe the typical physical characteristics of the sexes. For instance, are there differences in the typical location of the center of gravity on the body of the different sexes? I agree that there is a narrowing of the typical differences between the sexes arising from the effect of physical shape and size on ultimate physical capacity. Nonetheless, there still remain some very distinct differences in physical capacity in general arising from the very nature of the sexes. Are there any relevant differences between the sexes in the physical activities for which bathrooms are designed?
 
mebanedeac said:
If a person is actually the gender he/she wants to be and not the gender of his/her birth, he/she must be permitted to compete in the gender of his/her chosen identity. To argue that that might create a competitive advantage is to admit that that person is not actually the gender he/she prefers. If that is the case he/she should be required to use the bathroom/shower/locker room that fits his/her actual gender.
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Lol, this is some awful logic. I quoted the entirety of your syllogism because each of your premises is individually flawed, but my favorite is this one:

"To argue that that might create a competitive advantage is to admit that that person is not actually the gender he/she prefers" -- what!?!

Although you're trying to be clever here, you're totally conflating sex and gender (yet again). A person's body and chemical makeup and genetics and whatever competitive advantage they gain thereby has shit-all to do with what gender their brain tells them they are.
 
wakephan09 said:
Lol, this is some awful logic. I quoted the entirety of your syllogism because each of your premises is individually flawed, but my favorite is this one:

"To argue that that might create a competitive advantage is to admit that that person is not actually the gender he/she prefers" -- what!?!

Although you're trying to be clever here, you're totally conflating sex and gender (yet again). A person's body and chemical makeup and genetics and whatever competitive advantage they gain thereby has shit-all to do with what gender their brain tells them they are.
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LMAO. I hate it when people conflate tautologies.
 
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