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HB2 Strikes Again

PhDeac said:
Conservatives want to scrap the system that worked. Everybody else just wants to go to the bathroom and mind their own business like we've been doing.
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so you admit the Charlotte ordinance was a completely unnecessary deviation from a system that already worked
 
I feel like we went through this before but Bobs change the laws for X percent of the country when applied to things that are the norm now seems completely ridiculous. For instance you know what else is .4% of a population, African Americans in Montana.
 
Montana residents make up about 0.3% of the US population.
 
MysteryMen said:
Huh? It wasn't a deviation from anything. It codified existing practice
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Dude, you may have assumed the title of biggest idiot on these boards over the past few weeks, which is really saying something. Have you even read the Charlotte ordinance? It didn't codify existing anything, it eliminates the right of the facilities provider to control which bathroom a person uses if that person simply claims they identify as the opposite gender, no matter what they look like. Where did that exist in practice, anywhere? That is a completely - completely - different concept than a passable transgender using the restroom of their choice because nobody notices/cares.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
And lastly, saying there's a right to sexual privacy over and over again doesn't make it a real thing. Even if you really really wished it were a thing.
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Okay, so I will ask this to you again, and please answer it. If there is no right to sexual privacy, and there is/was no documented transgender bathroom safety issue in Charlotte, then what is the need for the Charlotte ordinance? What right of transgenders is being affirmed by the Charlotte ordinance allowing them to choose their restroom if there is no right to sexual privacy?

Because using your own logic, if there is no right to sexual privacy then there is absolutely no rational basis for the Charlotte ordinance, because it shouldn't matter if a male to female transgender has to use the men's room. But it clearly does matter to the transgenders, as they do not want to be in the men's room for some reason, hence the Charlotte ordinance. So why do they apparently have a right to sexual privacy but the other 99.7% does not?
 
TW14 is reporting this morning that the General Assembly is willing to repeal HB2 this week, IF Charlotte repeals its ordinance as well. As both laws are equally stupid, that is the logical solution. If true, it will put the Charlotte City Council in a very tenuous position. The ordinance was hotly divisive locally, and the end results have cost the city hundreds of millions of dollars. If the general Assembly makes that offer and the Council doesn't take it, it will be political suicide for anyone on the Council as well as the mayor (though she sucks anyway).
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Dude, you may have assumed the title of biggest idiot on these boards over the past few weeks, which is really saying something. Have you even read the Charlotte ordinance? It didn't codify existing anything, it eliminates the right of the facilities provider to control which bathroom a person uses if that person simply claims they identify as the opposite gender, no matter what they look like. Where did that exist in practice, anywhere? That is a completely - completely - different concept than a passable transgender using the restroom of their choice because nobody notices/cares.
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Why do only passable transgender people get protection?

I'm pretty unsympathetic to the idea of "bathroom privacy" in general. I've been in a number of unisex bathrooms, including some that even had urinals that men were using when women had to, gasp, walk past them to get to a stall. The world didn't end. All transgender people in bathrooms are doing their business behind closed doors. As are most others (except men at urinals). I can't see how there is any kind of problem here
 
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Okay, so I will ask this to you again, and please answer it. If there is no right to sexual privacy, and there is/was no documented transgender bathroom safety issue in Charlotte, then what is the need for the Charlotte ordinance? What right of transgenders is being affirmed by the Charlotte ordinance allowing them to choose their restroom if there is no right to sexual privacy?

Because using your own logic, if there is no right to sexual privacy then there is absolutely no rational basis for the Charlotte ordinance, because it shouldn't matter if a male to female transgender has to use the men's room. But it clearly does matter to the transgenders, as they do not want to be in the men's room for some reason, hence the Charlotte ordinance. So why do they apparently have a right to sexual privacy but the other 99.7% does not?
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You seem to be conflating rights, laws, and need and then wrapping it in the bow of sexual privacy. Which makes for a messy argument.

Like everyone else, transgender people don't have the right to sexual privacy in the bathroom. However, as you stated, it was working pretty well to have transgender people use the bathroom of their expressed gender. So Charlotte decided to codify that working system.

And then Conservatives in Raleigh flipped out and decided that what had been working for years was actually the wrong way to do things.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
You seem to be conflating rights, laws, and need and then wrapping it in the bow of sexual privacy. Which makes for a messy argument.

Like everyone else, transgender people don't have the right to sexual privacy in the bathroom. However, as you stated, it was working pretty well to have transgender people use the bathroom of their expressed gender. So Charlotte decided to codify that working system.

And then Conservatives in Raleigh flipped out and decided that what had been working for years was actually the wrong way to do things.
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"Like everybody else" for the loss.
 
Why was the CLT ordinance necessary in the first place?
 
Liquid Karma said:
Why was the CLT ordinance necessary in the first place?
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Based on the response to HB2, they may have been trying to attract investment from Fortune 500 companies and major sports leagues who wanted to know that their employees would have been safe from discrimination.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
... Transgender people go to painful extremes to come across as the gender that they feel they are.

Nobody can tell me with a straight face that if a man in a dress pops up in the men's room that it is safer than just allowing that person to go to the women's room. I would love to see the people arguing the other side try to identify a transgender person out of a lineup of 10 people. Almost everybody posting here has gone into the bathroom with somebody of the opposite sex and you had no idea...
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I agree with all of your stances, but I think you really overstate how easily trans people pass un-noticed. IMO The trans people that most need protection under the law are the ones that don't pass.
 
I don't think he does. But you're right as well.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Based on the response to HB2, they may have been trying to attract investment from Fortune 500 companies and major sports leagues who wanted to know that their employees would have been safe from discrimination.
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Wait. I thought the Charlotte ordinance existed first, and HB2 was a response to it.
 
Right. He's saying that based on the business community's response to HB2, the market wanted something like the Charlotte ordinance.
 
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