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HB2 Strikes Again

pourdeac said:
Complete lack of logic? Bathrooms were called 'mens' and 'woman' in lieu of "penis" and "vagina". The facilities are practical. They aren't some sort of "man cave" and "princess palace". Since that's the case, how is it illogical to expect all penises to go to one and all vaginas to go to the other? No one is being denied a bathroom. No one is being denied the specific facilities inside the bathroom that they'd use in the OTHER bathroom. If nothing is being denied, where is the discrimination? That illogical? One argument I've heard is that it shouldn't matter where people go to the bathroom. The very argument people put out that it's discrimination is that it matters for one group. Seems hypocritical to me. Again, illogical?

There are legit logical understandable arguments coming from both sides. The absurd knee-jerk extremism including these boycotts is what is ridiculous...over a freaking bathroom. SJW extremism for the "W"! Rational discourse gets the "L".
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Is that your actual position/belief or was that just a logical hypothetical argument?

I can understand the penis/vagina thing being "logical" but what freaking country and century are we living in that we put laws in place to blatantly discriminate against groups (transgender/intersex) that are already face enough hate and discrimination as it is? To say that it all boils down to a penis or vagina is a little too simplistic I'm afraid.




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Deacsfan27 said:
Why do people think these boycotts are occurring? Has the liberal media and PC landscape infiltrated the NCAA and ACC? I would note that these organizations are run predominantly by older, white, males. I would guess most are also of a more conservative ideology (see Ron Wellman) as well. Seems like an odd group to cave into the PC world of today.
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They aren't caving to the PC world, they are trying to capitalize on it. The NCAA and NBA really don't give a shit where their games are played, they'll make similar money wherever. And their main consumer base isn't going away regardless of how they act (the OWG isn't going to stop watching the Heels because the ACC Tourny is no longer in NC, just like the OBG isn't going to stop watching the NBA based on where the AllStar game is played). However, both can pick up additional interest and loyalty amongst millennials who currently may not be as into those leagues as their predecessors.
 
pourdeac said:
Complete lack of logic? Bathrooms were called 'mens' and 'woman' in lieu of "penis" and "vagina". The facilities are practical. They aren't some sort of "man cave" and "princess palace". Since that's the case, how is it illogical to expect all penises to go to one and all vaginas to go to the other? No one is being denied a bathroom. No one is being denied the specific facilities inside the bathroom that they'd use in the OTHER bathroom. If nothing is being denied, where is the discrimination? That illogical? One argument I've heard is that it shouldn't matter where people go to the bathroom. The very argument people put out that it's discrimination is that it matters for one group. Seems hypocritical to me. Again, illogical?

There are legit logical understandable arguments coming from both sides. The absurd knee-jerk extremism including these boycotts is what is ridiculous...over a freaking bathroom. SJW extremism for the "W"! Rational discourse gets the "L".
Click to expand...

So it's logical to assume there are maurauding males dressing up as females in order to sexually assault said females when a hundred years of juris prudence cannot point to a case where it actually happened in NC.
 
macktheknife said:
So it's logical to assume there are maurauding males dressing up as females in order to sexually assault said females when a hundred years of juris prudence cannot point to a case where it actually happened in NC.
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Sure, by the same logic used to assume that there are high instances of violence against transgenders in Charlotte bathrooms necessitating an ordinance when said same hundred years of juris prudence has the same level of evidence. Both sides created problems that didn't exist in their "hey look at us" political grandstanding efforts.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
They aren't caving to the PC world, they are trying to capitalize on it. The NCAA and NBA really don't give a shit where their games are played, they'll make similar money wherever. And their main consumer base isn't going away regardless of how they act (the OWG isn't going to stop watching the Heels because the ACC Tourny is no longer in NC, just like the OBG isn't going to stop watching the NBA based on where the AllStar game is played). However, both can pick up additional interest and loyalty amongst millennials who currently may not be as into those leagues as their predecessors.
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Wait, the ACC and NCAA are going to make money by spending excessive amounts of time in relocating these events and literally thousands of hours of manpower, on the off-chance that they pull in millennials who aren't already watching the NCAA and ACC in North Carolina due to HB2?

There is almost no chance that the NCAA is making money off of these moves, and in all likelihood is losing a lot of guaranteed money that they already had, plus the costs of actually moving the tournaments.
 
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Sure, by the same logic used to assume that there are high instances of violence against transgenders in Charlotte bathrooms necessitating an ordinance when said same hundred years of juris prudence has the same level of evidence. Both sides created problems that didn't exist in their "hey look at us" political grandstanding efforts.
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Verbal and physical assaults on the LGBT community number in the thousands across this country and are well documented in thousands of news outlets and have included everything up to torture and first degree murder. WTF are you talking about.
 
Lol, it's an absurd law that has a 100% chance of being overturned. This is our chance to get out of big brother's shadow! We'll take all that money y'all don't want. Move the events to Greenville or Chas. The South Carolina shall rise again! (we aren't still repping the Confederacy, are we? :couch:)
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Wait, the ACC and NCAA are going to make money by spending excessive amounts of time in relocating these events and literally thousands of hours of manpower, on the off-chance that they pull in millennials who aren't already watching the NCAA and ACC in North Carolina due to HB2?

There is almost no chance that the NCAA is making money off of these moves, and in all likelihood is losing a lot of guaranteed money that they already had, plus the costs of actually moving the tournaments.
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I disagree. That relocation effort will be a net win as they open up the bidding for other cities to get in the mix. Especially in the ACC's instance since they will have a tournament in NY to use as a baseline to get back up there. You are a fool if you think social conscience is driving these moves, it is all about $$.
 
421Deac said:
If HB2 were just the bathroom issue and not the discriminatory laws that were tacked on, would there be the same backlash?
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That shit was repealed. Keep up.

However, it repeal shows how poorly thought through the whole bill was.
 
macktheknife said:
Verbal and physical assaults on the LGBT community number in the thousands across this country and are well documented in thousands of news outlets and have included everything up to torture and first degree murder. WTF are you talking about.
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Please show some actual evidence of transgenders being assaulted in Charlotte bathrooms (as you know, we already have laws against assault no matter who and where, so it should be easy to find). I'll wait. The Charlotte City Council wasn't able to come up with anything other than an informal collection of anecdotes, but I'm sure you can do better.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Please show some actual evidence of transgenders being assaulted in Charlotte bathrooms (as you know, we already have laws against assault no matter who and where, so it should be easy to find). I'll wait. The Charlotte City Council wasn't able to come up with anything other than an informal collection of anecdotes, but I'm sure you can do better.
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No thanks. I don't care where people piss.
 
You are both probably right and wrong about why and motivations. They aren't moving the games because they really care and it's the right thing to do and they also aren't moving the games because of whatever weird shit 2&2 is trying to peddle. They are like most companies and do it for positive PR to give them something in the plus column. Rapes, academic cheating etc... Needs something to counter balance it. Same reason a pharmaceutical company has a small division into rare disease research, etc..
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
You are both probably right and wrong about why and motivations. They aren't moving the games because they really care and it's the right thing to do and they also aren't moving the games because of whatever weird shit 2&2 is trying to peddle. They are like most companies and do it for positive PR to give them something in the plus column. Rapes, academic cheating etc... Needs something to counter balance it. Same reason a pharmaceutical company has a small division into rare disease research, etc..
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I agree with this.

Of course the NCAA considers economic factors when making these decisions. That doesn't mean that they are not losing money up front by moving the events in an effort to generate goodwill moving forward.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Sure, by the same logic used to assume that there are high instances of violence against transgenders in Charlotte bathrooms necessitating an ordinance when said same hundred years of juris prudence has the same level of evidence. Both sides created problems that didn't exist in their "hey look at us" political grandstanding efforts.
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Who cares?

Many cities have laws other cities don't. This is the most useless ruse there is.
 
tintinisahottie said:
No, a gender restrictive sporting body is taking a principled stand and not grandstanding
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That's actually a great point....so I looked it up. At the core of the bathroom issue is the concept that an individual can choose which gender they prefer....so if someone self-identifies as a woman then they can use the woman's room/lockeroom. Not allowing them to self-identify is being called discrimination.

The NCAA policy is as follows: "Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender."

http://www.transathlete.com/policies-college

The NCAA policy does not allow an individual to self-identify their gender. According to the arguments being made against H2B, the NCAA is practicing the same "discrimination".
 
pourdeac said:
That's actually a great point....so I looked it up. At the core of the bathroom issue is the concept that an individual can choose which gender they prefer....so if someone self-identifies as a woman then they can use the woman's room/lockeroom. Not allowing them to self-identify is being called discrimination.

The NCAA policy is as follows: "Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender."

http://www.transathlete.com/policies-college

The NCAA policy does not allow an individual to self-identify their gender. According to the arguments being made against H2B, the NCAA is practicing the same "discrimination".
Click to expand...

Well, there you go.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Why do people think these boycotts are occurring? Has the liberal media and PC landscape infiltrated the NCAA and ACC? I would note that these organizations are run predominantly by older, white, males. I would guess most are also of a more conservative ideology (see Ron Wellman) as well. Seems like an odd group to cave into the PC world of today.
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LOL, yeah, the same old white males who passed H2B which basically said "individuals with penises who want to wear dresses, come pee next to me." I can't believe how much they hate!

Some people are boycotting out of the fear of being labeled racist, hater, xenophobe, etc, others are acting to continue pushing the "conservatives/Reps HATE everything and everybody" narrative. Knee-jerk PC extremism has become pretty powerful.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Sure, by the same logic used to assume that there are high instances of violence against transgenders in Charlotte bathrooms necessitating an ordinance when said same hundred years of juris prudence has the same level of evidence. Both sides created problems that didn't exist in their "hey look at us" political grandstanding efforts.
Click to expand...

You don't think one of those crimes is way more likely to be reported (both to the police and by the media) than the other?
 
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