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Stop the fricking Hedging!!!

RJKarl

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It's one of the most useless plays ever invented.

What the fuck is anyone going to do to us 25-35' from the basket? really, how can they harm us? Let them take 20 threes from that distance a game.

Even if the guy moves in from 25' to 22" and takes the J, our guard can box out their big out on the court.

Hedging creates a myriad of problems and people out of position. I don't care if every team in the country uses it. This is a crazy concept.
 
I agree. This is killing us. Absolutely stupid. We are not playing against steph curry. I hate it. Put a big guy in the fucking paint and leave him there. DM is killing us with this shit.
 
Stop being so negative online on this message board. Recruits could see these posts and think the fans don't have the coach's back and choose to go elsewhere.

Think about next year!
 
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Needs to stop but it won't. Always leads to a wide open shot. Can't believe guys getting paid to coach basketball can't see this.
 
Agree with this. It is okay to hedge on the screen, but why continue it so far out that there is no way to get back on D. It seems that every time we do that, we just keep chasing on D until they get an open shot.

No way this defense will win games in college played like it is being coached.
 
I believe Bo Ryan was the first person to do this regularly. But there was a huge difference. He used inside the three point line (and to the 3 point line against great shooters) which didn't create the wide open spaces that doing it 25-35' from the basket does.

His methodology forced the next dribble to basically be in the lane or FT line, where there was other help. There is no help that far from the basket and causes ridiculous rotations.

The current usage makes no sense.
 
I believe Bo Ryan was the first person to do this regularly. But there was a huge difference. He used inside the three point line (and to the 3 point line against great shooters) which didn't create the wide open spaces that doing it 25-35' from the basket does.

His methodology forced the next dribble to basically be in the lane or FT line, where there was other help. There is no help that far from the basket and causes ridiculous rotations.

The current usage makes no sense.

You make much more sense on this board.
 
We've also tried trapping and switching against the PnR and those have also been pretty disastrous.
 
The best play (for NW) last night was when they ran a high pick and roll 10 feet outside of the 3 point line with about 5 minutes to go. Dinos hedged a little bit and then as he retreated to get back to his man, he collided with Woods who was trying to get back to the ball handler. Of course this was a better pick than NW could have set, and it allowed the ball handler free penetration down the lane and an easy lay-up, since all three other Wake defenders just watched him go by instead of rotating to fill the lane,
 
Not a fan, either. I can't remember the last time our rotations on D were actually sound.

Wish we'd play the Pack Line...

Yep...

Advantages of Pack Line Defense
1. Prevents Dribble Penetration – Due to four defenders always being inside the pack line, the offensive players will be find it hard to find gaps through the wall of defenders.

2. Prevents Back-Door Cuts – This is a great defense if you’re playing against an offense like the Princeton offense that likes to utilize the back-door cut. Since your players are sagging off their man, the offensive team will find it hard to get easy layups off back-door cuts.

3. Lower Opponent Field Goal Percentage – If your team can be patient on defense and not gamble, it will lead to the opponent taking tough contested jump shots.

4. Increased Rebounding – Sagging off their players will put your players in better rebounding positions… as long as they box out.

5. No Easy Scores – This advantage ties in with dribble penetration. If the opponent can’t get to the ring and your defense is packing the paint, there will be no easy opportunities to score.

6. Always in Help Position – Unlike traditional man-to-man defense, your players don’t need to move to be in help position… they’re already there!
 
I agree. This is killing us. Absolutely stupid. We are not playing against steph curry. I hate it. Put a big guy in the fucking paint and leave him there. DM is killing us with this shit.

IN all the games I have been on the floor, hedging only works IF you have players quick enough to get back to cover their man after they step out. Otherwise all you get is a foul when the slow player does something dumb up top or back down low because he is having to overcome his slowness getting back. He either jumps into a shooter who has him off his feet or bumps the new dribbler who has faked him.
 
It's one of the most useless plays ever invented.

What the fuck is anyone going to do to us 25-35' from the basket? really, how can they harm us? Let them take 20 threes from that distance a game.

Even if the guy moves in from 25' to 22" and takes the J, our guard can box out their big out on the court.

Hedging creates a myriad of problems and people out of position. I don't care if every team in the country uses it. This is a crazy concept.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Always has been a head scratcher/headache for me.
 
On the money. Limit the switching as well. On several occasions last night I watched a Wake defender back off his man in anticipation of a switch. Lazy, lazy defense promoted by an over reliance on switching. Makes me as crazy as the character in RJ's avatar.
 
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Yep...

Advantages of Pack Line Defense
1. Prevents Dribble Penetration – Due to four defenders always being inside the pack line, the offensive players will be find it hard to find gaps through the wall of defenders.

2. Prevents Back-Door Cuts – This is a great defense if you’re playing against an offense like the Princeton offense that likes to utilize the back-door cut. Since your players are sagging off their man, the offensive team will find it hard to get easy layups off back-door cuts.

3. Lower Opponent Field Goal Percentage – If your team can be patient on defense and not gamble, it will lead to the opponent taking tough contested jump shots.

4. Increased Rebounding – Sagging off their players will put your players in better rebounding positions… as long as they box out.

5. No Easy Scores – This advantage ties in with dribble penetration. If the opponent can’t get to the ring and your defense is packing the paint, there will be no easy opportunities to score.

6. Always in Help Position – Unlike traditional man-to-man defense, your players don’t need to move to be in help position… they’re already there!

In theory it's a good idea. The problem is you need a team full of defenders to play such and intricate defense. We have better defenders than last year, but still have a lot of holes.

Mitchell is a bad, bad defender because of his size and lack of quickness. He understands D and tries hard. He just can't play it.

Austin is just too slow. But you don't expect your knockdown gunslinger to be a good defender.

McClinton is out of position so often that he impacts everyone else.

Brandon could become an average defender, but his size is a problem. Right now he leans too much and goes for fakes too often. At this point, he's a bad defender.

Surprisingly, Dinos has really improved his D. He gets in much better position, moves his feet correctly more often and turns to get position to rebound like a different guy. He's gone from being a bad defender to being average. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve.

Keyshawn plays really hard and tough. Maybe it's rust from sitting out, but his lateral movement is not great now. That could improve. He's a very good defensive rebounder for a guard, but his overall defense is average.

Bryant is a very good defender and could be elite if we had another good defender next to him. He senses the passing lane very well. Sometimes he tries too hard to make up for the lapses of others.

JC could easily be an elite defender. He would be better right now if he didn't get those cheap offensive fouls. Without having to worry about them, he could be a stopper and make us much better.

Doral needs to stop getting offensive fouls and he could become an absolute lane clogger.
 
There's some serious irony in this thread...

The hedge is a critical piece of almost every version of the pack line defense out there. Virginia, Xavier, Butler under Stephens - when you're teaching the pack line there are two drills you do pretty much every day, relentlessly. The first is the close out. The pack line establishes a perimeter that you are always below. How far you retreat depends on the ball position and where your man is. Never give up baseline. Always force middle. This means anticipating skip passes and closing out on them is the #1 requirement of great pack line defenses. The 2nd is the hedge. Extreme ball pressure is a golden rule of the pack line. Dropping under picks doesn't fit that - the defender of the screener pops out to continue pressure on the ball, forces a dribble or two away from the screen, and recovers. We're just not good at it yet. Michigan State is hedging every high Duke pick as we speak. The idea that it's some crazy, idiotic concept is absurd.

Manning is running a help-man style defense with some pack line principles. But we simply couldn't have a worse makeup of players for a true pack line. Effective closeouts require length and athleticism. Look at UVA - a true point guard and a ton of length and athleticism everywhere else, they give one player under 6'4" a lot of minutes. We have Childress, Wilbekin, Woods, and Crawford at 6'3" or under. Tack on unathletic Arians and Dinos and you really have almost no ideal pack line defenders on our entire squad until Chaundee arrives. This is not a team that can succeed playing off shooters and recovering.
 
Interesting a team can't play defense when you have Virginia in the league. Roll tape.
 
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