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College Football Final Four

siff said:
What about Tim Williams, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster of Alabama? One of the best defenses in memory. Surely one of them deserved to be in the discussion.
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Oh christ just be happy with a national title every year
 
BamaDeac said:
I apologize if I am making the wrong assumption, but you are proposing an 8 team playoff with the winner of each of the Power 5 conferences receiving an automatic bid along with 3 "At Large" bids. The problem with giving the winner of the conference championship an automatic bid is what happens if a team that would never have had a chance to make the playoffs before the CCG wins that game. I would define a team that doesn't deserve to go to the Playoffs, even an 8 Team Playoff, as one with at least 4 losses. Personally, I feel that in most situations a 3 loss team wouldn't deserve to belong in an 8 Team Playoff (An example of one that would deserve to be in an 8 Team Playoff is this season's Southern Cal). Below are some examples from this season and a few from the past few seasons that had teams in a CCG, but had they won would have had no business belonging in an 8 Team Playoff

ACC
2009 GTech vs Clemson - Clemson was 8-4
2012 FSU vs GTech - GTech was 6-6

Big Ten
2016 Wisconsin vs Penn St - If Wisconsin won, then I don't believe they deserved to be in The Top 4 this season because they lost to both OSU and Michigan. Their best wins would have been Penn ST and against an LSU team that was not the same team after Miles was fired (LSU was a completely different team on offense). I think there is a strong case to not include them in an 8 Team Playoff as well.

2012 Nebraska vs Wisconsin- Wisconsin was 7-5 that season, need I say more.

Pac 12
2015 Stanford vs USC - USC was 8-4
2011 Oregon vs UCLA - UCLA was 6-6

SEC didn't have any recent teams with at least 4 losses, the most comparable would have been 2010 when Auburn played USC who entered the game 9-3.

Other than 2014 and 2010 there has been at least 1 CCG with a team that had they won would have had no business making the Playoffs. Granted there were no upsets in the games listed above, but imagine if a 6-6 UCLA won the Pac 12 in 2011 or a 6-6 GTech won in 2012. One might counter with that is what the 3 open slots are for, but the problem with this logic is that one of those slots would be taken by the team that lost the CCG, thus taking away a slot from a more deserving team than a 6-6 conference championship. Another argument is that it hasn't happened yet, the 6-6 teams have lost. I would counter by saying this is football, and anything can happen in a game, aka injury to starting QB, weather (Remember the rain this season when NCSU beat ND. Sorry, but that wasn't a game based on skill, but luck in who could snap the ball and who could hold on to it).

My point is that for those proposing an 8 Team Playoff where each of the conference champions from the Power 5 receive an automatic bid, then it has the potential to open up a can of worms much worse than what the CFPC did this season by putting OSU in over Penn St.
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You would be hard pressed to say that the teams that did deserve to get in wouldn't with an 8 team playoff. If Cinderella slips in, she either acts as a de facto bye week for the #1 seed or she wins a game or two and America LOVES it.
 
tigerswood said:
Really don't understand the PSU over OSU debate. Sure they beat them in one marquee night game, at home, in their White Out, in the wind/rain, for which they had two weeks to prepare (Wisconsin also a prime time game for which the Badgers had 2 weeks to prepare), in a game they were statistically dominated.

However, their overall body of work doesn't hold a candle to OSU's, losing to a team that finished 8-4, and losing by 39 to a team OSU beat. If you equate PSU's win over OSU with OSU's win over Michigan, PSU has no win that comes close to comparing to OSU's thrashing of Oklahoma on the road.

The committee has said multiple times that head-to-head results and conference championships will only come into play as tiebreakers when teams have comparable resumes. OSU and PSU just don't.
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Penn St beat OSU, period. Penn St had 2 drives of 75+ yards that lead to TDs, their 75 yarddrive at the end of the 1st half and a 90 yard drive in the 2nd half. Also, they made big plays on defense and special teams that lead to 10 points, and OSU had 7 drives that were 3 and out.

The problem with the body of work argument with OSU isn't so much against Penn St, but against Washington. Both OSU and Penn St have better non-conference resumes than Washington. Penn St beat 24th ranked Temple who won the AAC, but lost to 3 points to a 23rd ranked Pitt team that beat both Penn St and Clemson. Washington beat Rutgers and Idaho.

If anything, technically the argument should be between Penn St and Washington for the 4th spot. If we are to assume the CFPC is ranking the 4 best teams in order, then the 4th spot went to Washington rather than Penn St.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
You would be hard pressed to say that the teams that did deserve to get in wouldn't with an 8 team playoff. If Cinderella slips in, she either acts as a de facto bye week for the #1 seed or she wins a game or two and America LOVES it.
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Lets use this season as an example and say that Florida beat Alabama. I don't think anyone would argue against giving Bama one of the 3 "At Large" Bids.
ACC: Clemson
Big 10: Penn St
Big 12: Oklahoma
Pac 12: Washington
SEC: Florida

At large: Bama

That leaves 2 spots for OSU, Michigan, Southern Cal, and Wisconsin. Who gets left out? According to the media and the fans they have brainwashed, OSU would get one of the spots. That leaves 1 spot between Michigan and USC.

Had Bama won, then I believe most would agree the 3 "At Large" would have been OSU, Michigan, and Southern Cal. However, Southern Cal, arguably the "Hottest" team in the country, would probably be left out, which is very ironic because one of the main reasons to have 3 "At Large" teams are for teams that got off to a slow/bad start but became very good as the season went on.
 
siff said:
What about Tim Williams, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster of Alabama? One of the best defenses in memory. Surely one of them deserved to be in the discussion.
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Im so glad that people realize that some seasons the best college football player is on defense, and not either the QB or RB. I am not saying this occurs every season or every other season, but maybe 1-2 times within a 10 year period. The 2016 Bama defense is one of the best in CFB History. As for the names you mentioned above, I would believe Allen has been the best player in college football this season. The reason that Williams and Anderson were able to get so many sacks was because Allen had to be double teamed on most passing plays. Also, he is the reason Foster was able to get so many tackles because he acted as the "blocker", which freed up Foster from getting blocked from LBs.

Personally, I do believe that in 2011 Tyrann Matheieu should have won the Heisman over RG3. That 2011 LSU defense set the tone for that team, and he had multiple games where he made a play that changed the momentum of the game, and LSU never looked back after that play. He ran back 2 fumbles for TDs, 1 INT for a TD, and 2 punt returns for TDs. Also, he had 5 forced fumbles, 4 fumble recoveries (includes the 2 ran ack for TDs), 3 INTs, and 4.5 sacks.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
Oh, I know full well what's going on. It's the same thing that always goes on with college football. Ohio State is going to bring a butt ton of eyeballs to the table, and we're going to pretend they didn't lose to Penn State because doing so will make more money than if we don't pretend that.
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You think people are all going to look the other way while the kids at Penn State get fucked just to protect the money makers and PTB in college football?!? Bullshit. That will never happen.
 
BamaDeac said:
Lets use this season as an example and say that Florida beat Alabama. I don't think anyone would argue against giving Bama one of the 3 "At Large" Bids.
ACC: Clemson
Big 10: Penn St
Big 12: Oklahoma
Pac 12: Washington
SEC: Florida

At large: Bama

That leaves 2 spots for OSU, Michigan, Southern Cal, and Wisconsin. Who gets left out? According to the media and the fans they have brainwashed, OSU would get one of the spots. That leaves 1 spot between Michigan and USC.

Had Bama won, then I believe most would agree the 3 "At Large" would have been OSU, Michigan, and Southern Cal. However, Southern Cal, arguably the "Hottest" team in the country, would probably be left out, which is very ironic because one of the main reasons to have 3 "At Large" teams are for teams that got off to a slow/bad start but became very good as the season went on.
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That playoff would be awesome.
 
If the playoff moves to 6 teams (my preferred plan), then it will force a paradigm shift in which conference championship games are viewed as play-in games. So if a Bama gets upset, so be it.
 
They should just rid of conference championship games. Will never happen because of the $$$, but should. Get-in price to the B1G championship game was $6
 
Still doesn't matter right now if we get to 6 or 8, the next team or 2 left out is going to be upset. Penn State had their chance in the regular season and got beat by an 8-4 Pitt team 42-29 and was also leading 35-21 after 3 qtrs. They got blown out 49-10 by #6 Michigan. 2 different plays in the season and Michigan sits in the playoff with at least a 12-1 season [loss in Big 10 title game] or 13-0 season along with Bama--block Iowa FG like we did to Duke in 2006 and hold OSU by another 4 inches on the key 4th down. Or PSU gets in if NC State could hit a tiny chip shot FG against Clemson and the Tigers are odd man out with 2 losses and weren't even in the ACCCG.

CFP is perfect with 4 teams, otherwise they will have to cancel out the conference title games, which make everybody a lot of money and are a great way to get a conference champion. Or else take away a non-con game & back the season up one week [plus everybody play 9 conf games.] The powers don't want to add another game on these non-pro bodies and they are not going to go into another semester, not going to mess with the bowl system and not mess with New Years. Plus they are not going to mess up the general time frame of exams and the regular season ending the first Saturday in Dec.
 
MysteryMen said:
They should just rid of conference championship games. Will never happen because of the $$$, but should. Get-in price to the B1G championship game was $6
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Because it was meaningless. If the winner was guaranteed a trip to the playoff...
 
BamaDeac said:
Lets use this season as an example and say that Florida beat Alabama. I don't think anyone would argue against giving Bama one of the 3 "At Large" Bids.
ACC: Clemson
Big 10: Penn St
Big 12: Oklahoma
Pac 12: Washington
SEC: Florida

At large: Bama

That leaves 2 spots for OSU, Michigan, Southern Cal, and Wisconsin. Who gets left out? According to the media and the fans they have brainwashed, OSU would get one of the spots. That leaves 1 spot between Michigan and USC.

Had Bama won, then I believe most would agree the 3 "At Large" would have been OSU, Michigan, and Southern Cal. However, Southern Cal, arguably the "Hottest" team in the country, would probably be left out, which is very ironic because one of the main reasons to have 3 "At Large" teams are for teams that got off to a slow/bad start but became very good as the season went on.
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That would be an incredible playoff. The beauty of the eight team playoff would be that even when an underdog upsets the favorite in the CCG, the three at large bids allow the commitee to "correct" the bracket.

It will eventually go to eight. And CCGs aren't going anywhere when it does.
 
MysteryMen said:
They should just rid of conference championship games. Will never happen because of the $$$, but should. Get-in price to the B1G championship game was $6
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More importantly, get rid of ridiculous games against FCS opponents. The revenue lost by smaller schools will be replaced exponentially by an expanded playoff. Go back to an 11 game regular season, too.
 
TheReff said:
Still doesn't matter right now if we get to 6 or 8, the next team or 2 left out is going to be upset. Penn State had their chance in the regular season and got beat by an 8-4 Pitt team 42-29 and was also leading 35-21 after 3 qtrs. They got blown out 49-10 by #6 Michigan. 2 different plays in the season and Michigan sits in the playoff with at least a 12-1 season [loss in Big 10 title game] or 13-0 season along with Bama--block Iowa FG like we did to Duke in 2006 and hold OSU by another 4 inches on the key 4th down. Or PSU gets in if NC State could hit a tiny chip shot FG against Clemson and the Tigers are odd man out with 2 losses and weren't even in the ACCCG.

CFP is perfect with 4 teams, otherwise they will have to cancel out the conference title games, which make everybody a lot of money and are a great way to get a conference champion. Or else take away a non-con game & back the season up one week [plus everybody play 9 conf games.] The powers don't want to add another game on these non-pro bodies and they are not going to go into another semester, not going to mess with the bowl system and not mess with New Years. Plus they are not going to mess up the general time frame of exams and the regular season ending the first Saturday in Dec.
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How many times has the 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th ranked team had a legitimate gripe?
 
After seeing Southern Cal and Wisconsin I don't think we need an eight team playoff.
 
BamaDeac said:
Penn St beat OSU, period. Penn St had 2 drives of 75+ yards that lead to TDs, their 75 yarddrive at the end of the 1st half and a 90 yard drive in the 2nd half. Also, they made big plays on defense and special teams that lead to 10 points, and OSU had 7 drives that were 3 and out.

The problem with the body of work argument with OSU isn't so much against Penn St, but against Washington. Both OSU and Penn St have better non-conference resumes than Washington. Penn St beat 24th ranked Temple who won the AAC, but lost to 3 points to a 23rd ranked Pitt team that beat both Penn St and Clemson. Washington beat Rutgers and Idaho.

If anything, technically the argument should be between Penn St and Washington for the 4th spot. If we are to assume the CFPC is ranking the 4 best teams in order, then the 4th spot went to Washington rather than Penn St.
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The better team doesn't always win the game. Fortunately, the committee can account for that based on the team's entire resume.

Agreed that you could make a strong argument for PSU over Washington on strength of schedule. Hell, if PSU plays Idaho instead of Pitt, they are probably in right now. OSU over Washington is a no-brainer, despite the lack of conference championship. "Worse" loss and far worse strength of schedule.
 
It certainly would've been a helluva debate if PSU had played Idaho instead of Pitt.

I'm not sure they leave out the Pac-12 politically, so it very well might've been the Buckeyes that would've slipped out.

Though it still could've been PSU with the blowout L to Michigan and the metrics favoring the others
 
Shorty said:
That would be an incredible playoff. The beauty of the eight team playoff would be that even when an underdog upsets the favorite in the CCG, the three at large bids allow the commitee to "correct" the bracket.

It will eventually go to eight. And CCGs aren't going anywhere when it does.
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Someone else also stated the 8 Team Playoff I proposed would nice to see. However, neither of y'all answered the question to my scenario, which was what happens if there is a major upset in a CCG and a team that would have had no chance of getting into the 8 Team Playoffs gets in, thus taking away a spot from a more deserving team. This was the point I trying to make.

For the current season, just assume Bama lost to Florida in the SECCG. I think a very large majority would agree that Bama would get 1 of the 3 At Large Bids. Therefore, only 2 spots are left for OSU, Michigan, and Southern Cal. Of those 3 teams, which one is left out?

Southern Cal doesn't have a better resume than OSU, and their resume compared to Michigan is splitting hairs. However, Southern Cal is the hottest team in CFB with either an 8 or 9 game winning streak , while Michigan lost 2 of their last 3 games.

My point is that by giving the winner of the CCG an automatic bid that it could create a situation when that team would never have gotten in otherwise, and takes away one of the At Large Bids. (I made another post showing that in the last 5-6 years that in 4 or 5 of them there has been at least one CCG with a team that has at least 4 losses, and twice there has been a 6-6 team)
 
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BamaDeac said:
Someone else also stated the 8 Team Playoff I proposed would nice to see. However, neither of y'all answered the question to my scenario, which was what happens if there is a major upset in a CCG and a team that would have had no chance of getting into the 8 Team Playoffs gets in, thus taking away a spot from a more deserving team. This was the point I trying to make.

For the current season, just assume Bama lost to Florida in the SECCG. I think a very large majority would agree that Bama would get 1 of the 3 At Large Bids. Therefore, only 2 spots are left for OSU, Michigan, and Southern Cal. Of those 3 teams, which one is left out?

Southern Cal doesn't have a better resume than OSU, and their resume compared to Michigan is splitting hairs. However, Southern Cal is the hottest team in CFB with either an 8 or 9 game winning streak , while Michigan lost 2 of their last 3 games.

My point is that by giving the winner of the CCG an automatic bid that it could create a situation when that team would never have gotten in otherwise, and takes away one of the At Large Bids. (I made another post showing that in the last 5-6 years that in 4 or 5 of them there has been at least one CCG with a team that has at least 4 losses, and twice there has been a 6-6 team)
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It depends on the parameters by which you define "a more deserving team." Had Bama been upset in the SECCG, in my view, they are no longer the more deserving team. Florida is.

It really all comes down to this question - do you want the playoff to be comprised entirely of teams that a thirteen person committee thinks are the four best or do you want a playoff comprised of teams who knew exactly what the qualifications were from the first day of spring practice - win and you're in. And did.

IMO, the eight team playoff, with CCG winners auto-qualifying, combines the best of both.
 
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