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John Collins is #2 in KP's All-ACC Ratings

Dino made a nice point during the game last night about Collins' A/TO ratio and developing his ability to pass out of double teams. For someone who gets double-teamed as often as he does on the block, he should have more assists.
 
CantStandYa said:
Dino made a nice point during the game last night about Collins' A/TO ratio and developing his ability to pass out of double teams. For someone who gets double-teamed as often as he does on the block, he should have more assists.
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he had a bad turnover in transition against BC that should have been an assist

he's got solid handles running the floor; you'd think he'd have opportunities to go coast to coast or lead a break, but his vision is a bit lacking
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Chad Ford released a new big board today for the top 30 2017 NBA prospects.

24. John Collins
Previous rank: N/A
Wake Forest
Sophomore
Forward

Collins has been really strong in ACC play, averaging 23 PPG and 9 RPG while shooting a ridiculous 72 percent from the field.

While Collins is a sophomore, he's younger than some of the freshmen on our board. He won't turn 20 until late September.
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Those numbers must be from last 4-5 games. He's averaging 18 and 8 in conference.

I think the biggest arguments against him going pro are the FSU and Carolina games. Those two teams have legit NBA size and pretty much shit Collins down.
 
RChildress107 said:
Those numbers must be from last 4-5 games. He's averaging 18 and 8 in conference.

I think the biggest arguments against him going pro are the FSU and Carolina games. Those two teams have legit NBA size and pretty much shit Collins down.
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Also the Xavier game. They didn't have a much taller player, but they had a couple physically stronger players that frustrated him.
 
RChildress107 said:
Those numbers must be from last 4-5 games. He's averaging 18 and 8 in conference.

I think the biggest arguments against him going pro are the FSU and Carolina games. Those two teams have legit NBA size and pretty much shit Collins down.
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Sure. Some of that will be addressed by simply becoming a man and getting another year of S&C. He won't be the focal point on an NBA team. He strikes me as a rookie who could get 15-20 min/game with reasonably high usage and efficiency when he gets in. He clearly has potential to extend his jumper, be a good ballhandler, and pass out of the double team.

One reason he doesn't have many assists is because he's supposed to be a black hole on this team. He should be the 1st and 2nd option on every possession. So when he passes out of a double team, the goal is to get reset and get him the ball in a better position to score.
 
He isn't going to get doubled in the NBA. So that issue is irrelevant.

Collins is somewhere between 6'8 and 6'10. He is fairly athletic, but not the type of athlete that wows you with his explosiveness. He has the ability to potentially expand his jump shot out towards the 3 point line, but is not there yet. And he has shown no indication he has the foot-speed or lateral quickness to guard the perimeter for any significant stretch of time. His body will probably top out at 250 or so.

I say all that to say that while I think he is a first round pick, he is likely a 7th-8th man on a good team or a starter on a bad one. I guess he could play some small-ball C, but mainly he would be a PF who can get you baskets if you get it to him in the post but is a sieve when asked to guard repeated PNRs or defend small-ball 4s. I would be shocked if NBA teams saw him as a potential all-star or even a top 3 player on a good team. And that isn't going to change from this year to next, unless he shows back up to school next year and shoots 36%+ from 3 on good volume. I can't imagine that is likely, either from his abilities or where he will be in the offense.

If he is given a guaranty, he should (and will) go. If he lucks into a good franchise, he can win games, develop, and be in a position to make $8M-10M/year on his 2nd contract.

The NBA almost never wants you to stay in school to improve your game. People need to get that.
 
DeaconSig said:
He isn't going to get doubled in the NBA. So that issue is irrelevant.

Collins is somewhere between 6'8 and 6'10. He is fairly athletic, but not the type of athlete that wows you with his explosiveness. He has the ability to potentially expand his jump shot out towards the 3 point line, but is not there yet. And he has shown no indication he has the foot-speed or lateral quickness to guard the perimeter for any significant stretch of time. His body will probably top out at 250 or so.

I say all that to say that while I think he is a first round pick, he is likely a 7th-8th man on a good team or a starter on a bad one. I guess he could play some small-ball C, but mainly he would be a PF who can get you baskets if you get it to him in the post but is a sieve when asked to guard repeated PNRs or defend small-ball 4s. I would be shocked if NBA teams saw him as a potential all-star or even a top 3 player on a good team. And that isn't going to change from this year to next, unless he shows back up to school next year and shoots 36%+ from 3 on good volume. I can't imagine that is likely, either from his abilities or where he will be in the offense.

If he is given a guaranty, he should (and will) go. If he lucks into a good franchise, he can win games, develop, and be in a position to make $8M-10M/year on his 2nd contract.

The NBA almost never wants you to stay in school to improve your game. People need to get that.
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Except the NBA would prefer to have a requirement that players need to stay in school 2-3 years so they can do just that.

Now, they don't have that rule, which leads many teams to speculate and draft on potential. But they'd prefer not to do that.
 
That's a financial not developmental consideration
 
Agree with Sig on Collins' long-term potential. Medium floor, low ceiling guy.
 
DeaconSig said:
He isn't going to get doubled in the NBA. So that issue is irrelevant.

Collins is somewhere between 6'8 and 6'10. He is fairly athletic, but not the type of athlete that wows you with his explosiveness. He has the ability to potentially expand his jump shot out towards the 3 point line, but is not there yet. And he has shown no indication he has the foot-speed or lateral quickness to guard the perimeter for any significant stretch of time. His body will probably top out at 250 or so.

I say all that to say that while I think he is a first round pick, he is likely a 7th-8th man on a good team or a starter on a bad one. I guess he could play some small-ball C, but mainly he would be a PF who can get you baskets if you get it to him in the post but is a sieve when asked to guard repeated PNRs or defend small-ball 4s. I would be shocked if NBA teams saw him as a potential all-star or even a top 3 player on a good team. And that isn't going to change from this year to next, unless he shows back up to school next year and shoots 36%+ from 3 on good volume. I can't imagine that is likely, either from his abilities or where he will be in the offense.

If he is given a guaranty, he should (and will) go. If he lucks into a good franchise, he can win games, develop, and be in a position to make $8M-10M/year on his 2nd contract.

The NBA almost never wants you to stay in school to improve your game. People need to get that.
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Generally agree, but I think a combination of next year's draft being weak, Collins putting up All-American #s, a potential tourney run, and stupid GMs will vault him into the lottery if he stays.
 
I am about as far from an athlete as they come, but I have to imagine if I felt like I had a good chance at getting guaranteed millions I would take it it a heartbeat over the prospect of getting even more next year. I'd rather be pretty much financially set in the short (or with good management, longer) term than risk having an injury and losing it all. As a fan, I would like to see him stay, but it's not like it's a bad pitch to say "our staff took a 3 or 4 star prospect ranked around 230 in his class and got him to the NBA in two years."
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
Agree with Sig on Collins' long-term potential. Medium floor, low ceiling guy.
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Considering his projected draft position, that's pretty damn good.

SpringChicken said:
I am about as far from an athlete as they come, but I have to imagine if I felt like I had a good chance at getting guaranteed millions I would take it it a heartbeat over the prospect of getting even more next year. I'd rather be pretty much financially set in the short (or with good management, longer) term than risk having an injury and losing it all. As a fan, I would like to see him stay, but it's not like it's a bad pitch to say "our staff took a 3 or 4 star prospect ranked around 230 in his class and got him to the NBA in two years."
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TITCR. Do some of y'all actually think that Collins has top-5 or even top-10 draft potential in 2018? I just can't see it.
 
Been thinking that if Collins stayed all four years, he's got the potential to draw legitimate comparisons to Timmy D. Obviously unless something crazy happens, he'll won't be here all 4 years, but his improvement over last year is really pretty amazing and he's just a soph.
 
Collins is 19 1/3 years old and rapidly improving from game to game. I think don't think you can call him a "low ceiling" guy especially since his role in this offense is very specific.
 
Strickland33 said:
Considering his projected draft position, that's pretty damn good.



TITCR. Do some of y'all actually think that Collins has top-5 or even top-10 draft potential in 2018? I just can't see it.
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If he adds a consistent 18 footer, puts up 20-10 and carries us to the elite 8 I can see him sneaking into the top 10.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Been thinking that if Collins stayed all four years, he's got the potential to draw legitimate comparisons to Timmy D. Obviously unless something crazy happens, he'll won't be here all 4 years, but his improvement over last year is really pretty amazing and he's just a soph.
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Collins has gone from college developmental project to pretty definite NBA first round pick in two years, with reasonable speculation that he could be a (probably late) lottery pick with another year of continued development. His development has been incredible.

That is the good news and the bad news. He has really come on this season. Therefore at least one NBA GM probably will draft him in the first round. They will think that with 6 months of S&C with their S&C guy that Collins will be able to play decent (around 20) minutes per game as a reserve PF for their team. Plenty good enough to draft in round 1.
 
PhDeac said:
Collins is 19 1/3 years old and rapidly improving from game to game. I think don't think you can call him a "low ceiling" guy especially since his role in this offense is very specific.
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Yeah I would hope if he comes back we try and diversify that role a litttle bit. Would be good for him and would help our end game offense.
 
At season's end, DM will know how best to advise JC about his pro career potential.

That's a huge advantage playing for the 1988 #1 overall pick.
 
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