• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

John Collins is #2 in KP's All-ACC Ratings

Wakeforest22890 said:
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. If he goes pro after this year it'd be because he got first round feedback at the combine. He then gets paid as a first rounder and his life is solely dedicated to basketball where he will improve by playing against better competition day in and day out. If he doesn't go pro, he'll likely continue to improve at Wake and bulk up before going pro a year later. Don't really see a clear downside between the two, but I'm also not someone sold on the "you can improve more in college than the NBA" camp at all.
Click to expand...

This isn't entirely true. There is not as much practice time in the NBA due to the amount of games. Guys need to come in a bit more polished otherwise they can really be behind the curve and never get out from it.
 
MichDeac25 said:
This isn't entirely true. There is not as much practice time in the NBA due to the amount of games. Guys need to come in a bit more polished otherwise they can really be behind the curve and never get out from it.
Click to expand...

I would have agreed more before the D-League. For example, the Spurs picked UW frosh Dejounte Murray with the 29th pick last year. He's only played in 25 games average about 9 minutes and that includes some recent starts while Tony Parker was out. It looks like he's hanging on to the end of the bench and not getting much work until you see he has also played 13 D-League games averaging 35 min/game.

Even if Collins isn't ready right away, he could get plenty of D-League run to speed up his development. The main reason he would have to stay would be to continue his impressive development under Manning and be a high lottery pick next year. But that's outweighed by the losing.
 
PhDeac said:
I would have agreed more before the D-League. For example, the Spurs picked UW frosh Dejounte Murray with the 29th pick last year. He's only played in 25 games average about 9 minutes and that includes some recent starts while Tony Parker was out. It looks like he's hanging on to the end of the bench and not getting much work until you see he has also played 13 D-League games averaging 35 min/game.

Even if Collins isn't ready right away, he could get plenty of D-League run to speed up his development. The main reason he would have to stay would be to continue his impressive development under Manning and be a high lottery pick next year. But that's outweighed by the losing.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this?

I see the logic behind the "I'd rather get drafted late first round into a good situation where I have the chance to grow as a player and hopefully make up the money on my second and third deals than go mid-late lottery and end up on the Kings" line of thinking, but I doubt many high level basketball players buy into it.
 
It's not likely he can come back to Wake to contend for a championship. He may become a much better player but for what goal?
 
A college player's decision to stay or go into the draft hinges on a lot more than whether his college team can win the Natty.

A lot depends on whether Collins enjoys his coaches, his team, his college or is eager to get to the league. Also, a lot will depend on his parents/family priorities/needs. Kind of silly to worry about until the season is over.
 
PhDeac said:
It's not likely he can come back to Wake to contend for a championship. He may become a much better player but for what goal?
Click to expand...

A chance to play in the NCAA tournament (likely as a top 5-6 seed), competing for an ACC title, maybe a run to the elite 8?

If JC returns and Chaundee plays to rank, next year's team is easily a top 25, 20+ win team.
 
For someone like Collins I'd pretty much always leave if I was confident I would get a guaranteed (for 2 years) NBA deal. That entails going late 1st round or an early second from a team that will sign you.

You just don't make enough extra jumping from 30 to 15 or whatever in the draft to justify delaying your pro career a year.
 
RChildress107 said:
A chance to play in the NCAA tournament (likely as a top 5-6 seed), competing for an ACC title, maybe a run to the elite 8?

If JC returns and Chaundee plays to rank, next year's team is easily a top 25, 20+ win team.
Click to expand...

No. If we can't firmly get to the tournament with this lineup, I doubt we can contend like that even with a legit lottery Collins.
 
This team could make some noise with only a few minor upticks.
1. Dinos needs to go find where he left his shooting touch and get it back.
2. Collectively they need to play a full 40 minutes of offense and keep trying to score. Any lead they get, they need to try to make it bigger, not just keep it from getting smaller.
3. The guards need to remember that passing the basketball is a good thing, even in the last few minutes of a game. Keeping it and dribbling is not a good way to go.
4. Keyshawn needs to remember that his toughness doesn't have to go away in the last few minutes of games. He needs to drive, and just take the fouls. He is good at the line. Just get there. Those points count just the same as the other kind.
 
PhDeac said:
No. If we can't firmly get to the tournament with this lineup, I doubt we can contend like that even with a legit lottery Collins.
Click to expand...

If you took this roster and replaced Arians with a top-35, defensive minded SF we are probably 16-5 (6-3) top 25 (KP and AP) with wins over Duke and Xavier. That's not factoring in any improvement from JC or others.
 
RChildress107 said:
If you took this roster and replaced Arians with a top-35, defensive minded SF we are probably 16-5 (6-3) top 25 (KP and AP) with wins over Duke and Xavier. That's not factoring in any improvement from JC or others.
Click to expand...

That's a bit lofty IMO. Arians has been a nice offensive weapon and an experienced player. I wouldn't count on a freshman to make that much of an impact (3 ACC wins.) But I agree that with improvement from everyone and the addition of the incoming freshman, we're quite likely 6-3 and ranked and looking like a 3-4 seed.
 
Doggus said:
That's a bit lofty IMO. Arians has been a nice offensive weapon and an experienced player. I wouldn't count on a freshman to make that much of an impact (3 ACC wins.) But I agree that with improvement from everyone and the addition of the incoming freshman, we're quite likely 6-3 and ranked and looking like a 3-4 seed.
Click to expand...

He's also been pretty bad defensively. If Brown performs to rank he will be a significant step up overall from Arians.

In our last 3 ACC losses we've lost by an average of 4.3 points and given up an average of 26.6 points to the opposing team's starting SF. Not a stretch to think Brown would have made a difference in those games.
 
Remember what Duncan said, " I can always go to the NBA, I can never again have a senior year in college." Wise man
 
PhDeac said:
No. If we can't firmly get to the tournament with this lineup, I doubt we can contend like that even with a legit lottery Collins.
Click to expand...

RChildress is definitely more correct than Ph here. We're top 35-40 in the country right now, if Chaundee plays to rank and JC returns then that team would be ranked at some point and perhaps for long stretches of the season.
 
Our coach must be pretty decent to have put together this strong of a lineup in 2 1/2 years that he is now failing by not producing win after win given the strength of the roster.

In all seriousness, we don't have anybody on our entire roster than can defend the 3 position right now. Brown fills that gap right away. You could argue that with just his defense alone we would have won 2-3 more games. We're talking 2 games (Clemson and Duke) where if we had stopped them at all on the final 5-7 possessions we would've won.
 
I think the projection is he will come in and be at least a replacement level defender, which would be ahead of our current offering at that spot.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
RChildress is definitely more correct than Ph here. We're top 35-40 in the country right now, if Chaundee plays to rank and JC returns then that team would be ranked at some point and perhaps for long stretches of the season.
Click to expand...

For 35 minutes, we are capable of playing Top 25 ball regardless of how we defend the 3. We can't assume replacing one of our best players with a freshman is going to fix that problem. I've got to see evidence we can finish with this lineup before believing we can finish with a different lineup. Arians rarely plays in the last 5 minutes anyway.
 
Chaundeac? Bruh, he's going to come in and be a LOCK-DOWN defender from day 1.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top