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John Collins is #2 in KP's All-ACC Ratings

JohnnyDeacon said:
In a parallel universe where Giles chose Wake, he's #4...pretty good for a frosh...and is considered a lock for the lottery thanks to Manning's tutelage. It's worth noting that in this parallel universe the Deacs have beaten Clemson, Duke and Virginia, but are still only 3 - 6 in conference play, and, despite beating 'nova, KP rates the team 43rd due to many bad losses (ahem, UTEP?!).

On the boards, the credibility watch thread posters are genuinely enthused by the marquis wins and is speculating on how Wellman needs to "open up the purse strings," to ensure Manning stays for the long-haul. The Credibility Watch thread Watch Thread, however, is apoplectic over the large number of bad losses (hello, UNC?! (should mention that UNC lost 1/2 of their scholly's and banned from post-season for the past 2 years due to the cheating scandal)) and insist that Manning is both too inexperienced and arrogant to coach at this level ("Man-down - Triage, STAT!!" is a popular spin-off thread).

Disco Dan, who recovered remarkably well from his shoulder issues thanks to the stem-cell therapy available, bumped into Manning after a gig at the Blind Tiger in Greensboro. Manning was obviously very drunk, and as they were shooting the breeze Manning let slip how he's trying to work behind the scenes to snare a "true High-Major" head coaching gig, and called Wake Forest fans, "a bunch of basket-cases." After much contemplation, Dan saw this as a scoop too good to pass-up, perhaps blinded by his own ambition after narrowly missing out on a Pulitzer for his book, Chicken and Football - Conversations from Tobacco Road. Identical to our own universe, many new threads were posted once that MTOW blog post was published.
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We lost to BC at home??!!?
 
If Collins come back we will be very good next year. We'd have a top 5-10 player in the country.
 
You've been arguing all season that we would have won these close games with some small, fairly simple tweaks by Manning.

So with slight improvements to the talent we have on the floor (by better allocating minutes) we could conceivably be 18-3 (7-2), yet claiming we could be a 6 seed next year with a significant upgrade at our biggest position of need is a bridge to far?
 
RChildress107 said:
You've been arguing all season that we would have won these close games with some small, fairly simple tweaks by Manning.

So with slight improvements to the talent we have on the floor (by better allocating minutes) we could conceivably be 18-3 (7-2), yet claiming we could be a 6 seed next year with a significant upgrade at our biggest position of need is a bridge to far?
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Yes, because we can't assume Manning is going to do what needs to be done to win close games.
 
TheReff said:
As we sit at the midpoint of ACC play, the picture for 2016-17 All-ACC selections is coming into focus. If the season ended today, here is how the ACCSports.com team would vote:

First team
Luke Kennard, Duke
Bonzie Colson, Notre Dame
John Collins, Wake Forest
Jamel Artis, Pittsburgh
Justin Jackson, North Carolina

Second team
Ben Lammers, Georgia Tech
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
Michael Young, Pittsburgh
Joel Berry, North Carolina
Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson

Third team
Dennis Smith Jr., NC State
Dwayne Bacon, Florida State
London Perrantes, Virginia
Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
Jonathan Isaac, Florida Sta
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Josh Okogie not being on any of the All-ACC teams would be a crime. He's been an absolute monster in league play, especially against the better teams on the schedule. Hell, his 35-14-5 against FSU was probably the single best game by any ACC player this season.
 
PhDeac said:
Yes, because we can't assume Manning is going to do what needs to be done to win close games.
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So to win close games Manning needs to have better talent on the floor (by properly allocating minutes)

But by putting better talent on the floor (by replacing Arians with Brown) we can't count on Manning to win close games?

That doesn't make sense unless you are arguing that Manning isn't going to play Brown at least as much as he currently plays Arians.
 
RChildress107 said:
What needs to be done other than putting better talent on the floor?
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We don't get good looks when the game slows down into the half court because of our play style. It's just not something the team prioritizes in general (organized offense). We need to do a way better job being able to find shots in the last 5-10 seconds of a shot clock when we are killing games off.
 
Collins age is a huge deal. He's significantly younger than freshies Josh Jackson, Lauri. About the same age as Lonzo, Isaac, Fox etc.
 
I think he has a lot that he can learn by staying another year, but if the family thinks it's in his best interest to go then I wish him nothing but the best.

Hopefully he dominates BC tonight.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I think he has a lot that he can learn by staying another year, but if the family thinks it's in his best interest to go then I wish him nothing but the best.

Hopefully he dominates BC tonight.
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Most of us thought he should stay and play himself into the lottery. He's probably going to play his way into the lottery in the next 10 games. I'm more concerned about playing his way into the NCAA Tournament.
 
Btw, going #17 vs. going #27 isn't that big of a deal pay wise. It's something people don't realize. Like 2/3.5 gtd vs 2/2.5 gtd. 3/5.5 vs. 3/3.8 if 3rd year option is picked up.

It's not really worth it to delay your earnings for that kind of jump. If you end up improving and being good you will more than make up the difference by hitting RFA a year younger. In the NBA these days if you aren't a high pick it really comes down to judging what the odds you will receive a guaranteed NBA contract are. It's why most people that are confident they will get that gtd NBA deal leave.
 
PhDeac said:
Most of us thought he should stay and play himself into the lottery. He's probably going to play his way into the lottery in the next 10 games. I'm more concerned about playing his way into the NCAA Tournament.
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I hope he does what is best for him personally. Obviously we all want him to help get us to the NCAA Tournament.
 
FckVwls said:
We don't get good looks when the game slows down into the half court because of our play style. It's just not something the team prioritizes in general (organized offense). We need to do a way better job being able to find shots in the last 5-10 seconds of a shot clock when we are killing games off.
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Our offense isn't the problem. In the last 5 minutes of our 4 close ACC losses we are averaging .97 points per 100 possessions and giving up 1.46. While that offensive mark isn't good by any means, the defensive mark is simply atrocious.

If you take out the Clemson game (where the offense was admittedly the problem) those numbers become 1.31 points per 100 possessions for the offense and 1.55 for the defense.

I don't care how well you move the ball you aren't going to win many close games if the other team scores 1.5 points every time down the floor.
 
how many of those points are off awful tos, though?
 
FckVwls said:
Btw, going #17 vs. going #27 isn't that big of a deal pay wise. It's something people don't realize. Like 2/3.5 gtd vs 2/2.5 gtd. 3/5.5 vs. 3/3.8 if 3rd year option is picked up.

It's not really worth it to delay your earnings for that kind of jump. If you end up improving and being good you will more than make up the difference by hitting RFA a year younger. In the NBA these days if you aren't a high pick it really comes down to judging what the odds you will receive a guaranteed NBA contract are. It's why most people that are confident they will get that gtd NBA deal leave.
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So it's a 40-45% bump.

At this point, we're talking about if Collins should stay to be a top 5 pick next year. He looks like a clear 1st rounder. #ihopemyteampickshim
 
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