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Wake just gave up 95 to Clemson

mebanedeac said:
Dinos had a poor game in every respect, apart from a couple base line jumpers.

In fact, he has had a poor junior season. Disappointing. But he is ours and we have no one who can play his position, especially with McClinton injured. BTW, what's the word on McClinton?
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We're definitely asking Dinos to do a lot more than we used to. For better or worse, it looks like Danny told him "Just shooting 3's isn't going to get you to the next level. You need to bulk up, be able to rebound, and play some defense." In trying to add those elements to his game, he has lost what made him in the first place.

It begs the question: When you have a player like that, what do you do with him? Do you try and make him something that he may not be? Or do you just accept that he will only be one thing his entire career and push him in that direction? In college, it would appear that exploiting their strengths is preferable to developing their all around game in such a short period (See coach K).

I'm sure the answer lies somewhere in between. IMO, in Dinos' final year he needs to stop trying to learn anything new and work on merging freshman year Dinos (outside scoring threat) with Junior year Dinos (more of a traditional low post guy).
 
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Demonwolverine said:
We're definitely asking Dinos to do a lot more than we used to. For better or worse, it looks like Danny told him "Just shooting 3's isn't going to get you to the next level. You need to bulk up, be able to rebound, and play some defense." In trying to add those elements to his game, he has lost what made him in the first place.

It begs the question: When you have a player like that, what do you do with him? Do you try and make him something that he may not be? Or do you just accept that he will only be one thing his career and push him in that direction? In college, it would appear that exploiting their strengths is preferable to developing their all around game in such a short period (See coach K).
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This is a good question. I wonder if Dino's speed and athleticism could be part of moving him inside and bulk up to potentially play a stretch-5. He just could not guard any NBA 4, but maybe-eventually a 5.
 
Dinos has no realistic shot at the NBA, but he should have a nice career in Greece and possibly other top level Euro leagues. `
 
Ralph Medlin said:
When you have Dinos, Arians and Wilbekin in your rotation you are not a good team.
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Wake's a top 40 team in the country and all of these guys have contributed in meaningful ways throughout the year. They all have flaws, but plenty of college players do. Dinos and Arians lack lateral foot speed and Wilbekin is ineffective at getting down the lane. They also all have skills where they are above average: Dinos at stretching the defense due to his perimeter play and then Wilbekin/Arians three point prowess.

The problem is the amount of minutes they play in conjunction with the lack of an athletic wing who can play even replacement level defense.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Wake's a top 40 team in the country and all of these guys have contributed in meaningful ways throughout the year. They all have flaws, but plenty of college players do. Dinos and Arians lack lateral foot speed and Wilbekin is ineffective at getting down the lane. They also all have skills where they are above average: Dinos at stretching the defense due to his perimeter play and then Wilbekin/Arians three point prowess.

The problem is the amount of minutes they play in conjunction with the lack of an athletic wing who can play even replacement level defense.
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I have been pretty Danny-wait-and-see, but not being able to close out games with a big, relatively experienced (by 2017 standards) frontcourt who can shoot free throws is pretty frustrating. What formula were you waiting on?
 
I'm all for factoring in SOS, but it seems to me like weighing the RPI so heavily goes overboard there. If a team played 25 games against teams ranked in the top 25 and went 0-25, what would it's RPI be?
 
ACCOffice said:
If they are shooting 60% against your man to man maybe you consider it.
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Correct, and you run a 3-2. We ran zone in the first half against NC State and it was extremely effective. State wasn't expecting it, they didn't know how to attack it, and after their timeout to regroup we went back to man. The whole defensive sequence was very effective.
 
Ralph Medlin said:
When you have Dinos, Arians and Wilbekin in your rotation you are not a good defensive team.
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FIFY. Actually, Dinos has had some nice blocks this year. Wilbekin and Arians play smart defensively. They're just limited in quickness and/or length. Hard to fault them - they're maxing out what they were given.
 
ACCOffice said:
If they are shooting 60% against your man to man maybe you consider it.
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A zone gives up more open shots than man. Especially if it's a zone you rarely play and have undersized people on the wings.
 
DCDeac said:
Collins is the shit, don't get me wrong, but he still gives up 5 buckets a night against solid bigs just by getting pushed too deep and watching layups to stay out of foul trouble. Combine that and the 2 or 3 three pointers our shorter guards watch drop because they can't effectively challenge them and we're handing over 12 points a night defensively. We're in such dire need of a wing defender with length and a backup 4/5 with legit strength. Doral gets pushed around even more than Collins...
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Surprised this has not been discussed more. Our biggest weakness defensively last night IMHO was Collins' passivity on defense. When his man caught the ball inside 8 feet, it was going up, and with no resistance from JC. I understand he doesn't want to get in foul trouble, but we simply can't allow that many easy baskets. The game plan for attacking us has to be dribble penetration and go right at JC to hope for a silly reach-in, then attack with entry passes all night.
 
Our defensive woes are twofold IMO. 1. We don't have the required quickness/athleticism to stay with our man and 2. especially when you consider our basic fundamentals on defense are lacking. We have no business hedging our super slow bigs out past the FT line and we are awful at help and weakside defense. Sometimes we look like a Chinese Fire drill out there (no offense meant to the Chinese) and don't do the one thing to try and negate our relative lack of quickness, and that is communication on the defensive end of the court with each other. Until and unless we get people to do these better (or coach then better at the basics), the beatings will continue
 
sportsnut said:
Our defensive woes are twofold IMO. 1. We don't have the required quickness/athleticism to stay with our man and 2. especially when you consider our basic fundamentals on defense are lacking. We have no business hedging our super slow bigs out past the FT line and we are awful at help and weakside defense. Sometimes we look like a Chinese Fire drill out there (no offense meant to the Chinese) and don't do the one thing to try and negate our relative lack of quickness, and that is communication on the defensive end of the court with each other. Until and unless we get people to do these better (or coach then better at the basics), the beatings will continue
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RE: #2- there's no reason for any big to hedge past the 3 point line. Doing so creates fouls and rotations which are hard to make with slow and small people.

Arians and Wilbekin play the basics very well. They are just a bit slow. Wilbekin is also small. He gets beat even when he's in position which causes others to be out of position.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm all for factoring in SOS, but it seems to me like weighing the RPI so heavily goes overboard there. If a team played 25 games against teams ranked in the top 25 and went 0-25, what would it's RPI be?
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It depends on how close the games were. We are not really being blown out. Only game we got blown out was Villanova.
 
Dinos and Austin cannot play defense against anyone who is remotely athletic. This is a huge problem in certain match ups such as Clemson. This has to be fixed because there are plenty of teams with athletic 3’s and 4’s. Additionally if they can’t guard their man, the other players collapse to help on every dribble penetration leaving 1 or more shooters wide open at the 3 point line. It is a snowball affect that makes our defense look foolish. So having said that, those two players are a liability if they are not hitting threes or getting rebounds. In Clemson they did none of the above. So no points and no defense from both of those guys equals way to much pressure on everyone else on both ends. Desperately need some athleticism to supplement the shooting.
 
Most of my observations have been mentioned; the bottom line is we are two positions away from being a very good team. Obviously those are both forward positions(2starters and no back-ups). We have one of the best big men in the conf. and a back-up capable of decent minutes, 2 ACC caliber guards in Crawford and Woods(improving back -up with Childress at pg although we could use someone more athletic than Wilbekin at the other guard).

For the future, we better hope Washington and Mitchell make dramatic improvements, that Mello can come in ready to play or possibly a ACC capable post grad forward. I'm excited about Brown, but he is playing a position we are ok at. Maybe if our other centers improve, we can play a 3 guard line-up. The lack of quality forwards will hurt whether JC goes or stays.
 
65, that's a good post. In that respect, this team is a poor man's version of the 1996 team. Crawford, Woods, and Wilbekin are somewhat similar to Rutland, Goolsby, and Braswell. Arians is a taller version of Rusty. Peral was the stretch 4 we hoped frosh Dinos could be. Collins is nowhere close to Duncan, but he's as good offensively as we've had since. The forward positions in 1996 lacked defensive ability, but they had Duncan backing them up and Odom was a good defensive coach.
 
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