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50 Greatest Black Athletes

Glamour GIFs and Contrived Lighting: How the NBA reflects the pitfalls of our society

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Also from this author: Stealth Care: The hidden threat, How to be an OWG by your 30th birthday
 
WFcatamount22 said:
To be honest though "Trent Stricklands jackass stunt" would have blown the roof off the top of the Joel, potentially giving us the momentum to beat Duke. You have to take chances when your the underdog playing Duke.
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You mean like "Trent Strickland's jackass stunt" blew the roof off the top of the Joel to give us the momentum to beat Duke in 2OT his freshman year?
 
i dunno, i was there and thought it was a terrible time to try a reverse dunk, especially given his proclivity for clumsiness. It was a terrible decision and cost WF dearly.
 
It doesn't make him a jackass, just a poor poor decision. Other than that there is nothing wrong with Bobs post
 
Screamindemon3 said:
It doesn't make him a jackass, just a poor poor decision. Other than that there is nothing wrong with Bobs post
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First of all, thanks for your recent posts on this thread. You were dead-on in everything you said. About the jackass thing, though, I didn't say Strickland was a jackass (and I understand that you didn't say that I did, either). I simply said that the stunt he pulled...at the time he did it...was a jackass stunt. And it was. As I also said earlier in this thread, that was example of how the game today has become like a circus sideshow where showboating overrules fundamentals.

PH should look at some film of Oscar Robertson and Bill Russell sometime, if he thinks those guys couldn't play with today's players. I think that, inch for inch, Oscar Robertson may be the greatest college basketball player in the history of the game....especially considering what he had to endure while being a black player in a predominantly white game in the late 1950s. There is a reason why they call the award given each year to the Collegiate National Player of the Year the Oscar Robertson Trophy.

And for Bill Russell, he was the epitome of a winner and a team player...who went about his business with no fanfare and a single-minded purpose: to win games & championships. As a matter of fact, there is no better example of the difference between winning fundamentals and individual showboating today than when you compare how Bill Russell blocked shots....which he did, often....and the way many players today try to block shots. Russell's block would often become the first pass in a fast break going the other way for his team. Rather than swatting the ball ten rows up into the stands to get a reaction from the crowd...which he could have done many times....Russell would simply deflect the shot to a nearby teammate to begin a fast break for his team.

Everyone wants to be entertained in sports today with showboat moves and trash talk.....boring fundamentals be damned. In the NFL we have seen touchdowns on breakaway wide open runs lost because the player started showing off and lost control of the ball before he reached the goal line....or sustained completely unnecessary injuries by doing showboat somersault flips into the end zone. In MLB, outfielders will miss their cutoff man on throws and hitters will swing at 3-0 pitches in the 8th inning with the bases empty and their team trailing by 4 runs. I was watching a game not long ago when a guy hit a high fly ball to the outfield with 2 out in the 9th and his team trailing by 1 run. He thought the ball would be caught, so he didn't half run to first base and when the outfielder dropped the ball he had to stop at first base when he could have easily been on 2nd base with the tying run if he had just run the play out. Well, you can guess what happened. The next batter got a hit....which would have scored him with the tying run if he was on 2nd base, but only sent him to 3rd base from 1st base. The hitter after that made the 3rd out and his team lost the game because he didn't make the effort to run out a fly ball when he represented the tying run. Is it too much to ask a guy to run out a fly ball for $10M/year?

Everything has to be a show. As I said, going to a sports event today is more like going to the circus than going to a game.
 
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Screamindemon3 said:
He said something negative about a player that's black. Ignore the praise of the other black players in the post, that's how this works in 2017.
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It's certainly how it works with many posters on this board. If you have the temerity to criticize any black person for any reason, you are automatically labeled a racist.

This is the result of the unbridled PC that is choking the country today.
 
Robertson and Russell - 2 of the "good ones".
 
bobknightfan said:
First of all, thanks for your recent posts on this thread. You were dead-on in everything you said. About the jackass thing, though, I didn't say Strickland was a jackass (and I understand that you didn't say that I did, either). I simply said that the stunt he pulled...at the time he did it...was a jackass stunt. And it was. As I also said earlier in this thread, that was example of how the game today has become like a circus sideshow where showboating overrules fundamentals.

PH should look at some film of Oscar Robertson and Bill Russell sometime, if he thinks those guys couldn't play with today's players. I think that, inch for inch, Oscar Robertson may be the greatest college basketball player in the history of the game....especially considering what he had to endure while being a black player in a predominantly white game in the late 1950s. There is a reason why they call the award given each year to the Collegiate National Player of the Year the Oscar Robertson Trophy.

And for Bill Russell, he was the epitome of a winner and a team player...who went about his business with no fanfare and a single-minded purpose: to win games & championships. As a matter of fact, there is no better example of the difference between winning fundamentals and individual showboating today than when you compare how Bill Russell blocked shots....which he did, often....and the way many players today try to block shots. Russell's block would often become the first pass in a fast break going the other way for his team. Rather than swatting the ball ten rows up into the stands to get a reaction from the crowd...which he could have done many times....Russell would simply deflect the shot to a nearby teammate to begin a fast break for his team.

Everyone wants to be entertained in sports today with showboat moves and trash talk.....boring fundamentals be damned. In the NFL we have seen touchdowns on breakaway wide open runs lost because the player started showing off and lost control of the ball before he reached the goal line....or sustained completely unnecessary injuries by doing showboat somersault flips into the end zone. In MLB, outfielders will miss their cutoff man on throws and hitters will swing at 3-0 pitches in the 8th inning with the bases empty and their team trailing by 4 runs.

Everything has to be a show. As I said, going to a sports event today is more like going to the circus than going to a game.
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An objective, rational older person like myself would say that there were positive, entertaining aspects of the game back in the 60's and 70's, and that there are different positive, entertaining aspects of the game now.

But you do you.
 
Coach O said:
An objective, rational older person like myself would say that there were positive, entertaining aspects of the game back in the 60's and 70's, and that there are different positive, entertaining aspects of the game now.

But you do you.
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There is no excuse for poor fundamentals and not giving 100% effort at all times...especially for the money that professional athletes are paid today. I edited the post you quoted to include a recent situation I saw in a baseball game. What is your comment on that situation?

(And I think that was a white player. All of this stuff isn't just about race, no matter how much some people always want to make everything about race.)
 
Coach O said:
An objective, rational older person like myself would say that there were positive, entertaining aspects of the game back in the 60's and 70's, and that there are different positive, entertaining aspects of the game now.

But you do you.
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Such a person would also admit that there were players with poor fundamentals who gave less than 100% then and players with good fundamentals who give 100% now.

I think if a person actually watched NBA basketball now, they'd realize that.
 
bobknightfan said:
There is no excuse for poor fundamentals and not giving 100% effort at all times...especially for the money that professional athletes are paid today. I edited the post you quoted to include a recent situation I saw in a baseball game. What is your comment on that situation?

(And I think that was a white player. All of this stuff isn't just about race, no matter how much some people always want to make everything about race.)
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There were poor fundamental players and players not giving 100% back then as well. You have romanticized an era. That's fine. I still watch Mary Tyler Moore and All in the Family reruns. Did players back then play with more "discipline?" Yes. That led to aspects of the game that you seem to enjoy. I do as well. Today, the level of athleticism is SOOOO much improved, and that has led to a style of play that is different. Drive and kick basketball has evolved from that improved athleticism and the 3 point line.

Both eras are fun and entertaining.
 
How do you play with "discipline" against players with ridiculous handles and range to 30 feet? Or 6-11 guys who can score from anywhere on the court? Or guys built like tanks who can still shoot?

The NBA has chosen to showcase this athleticism rather than try to stifle it. The skill on the court now is amazing.
 
There a co-#1 reasons why fundamentals have deteriorated in basketball - sneaker companies and AAU. The third, but very, very, very distant reason is the inane one and done rule.

What's even worse is how the AAU is working so tightly with the sneaker companies. They start reaching out for kids in 5th/6th grades. Kids get free stuff really early and the shoe companies start with the families in middle school. They can clearly see that their school coaches aren't that important to getting scholarships or even to the NBA. You play for a Nike/adidas AAU team; are coached by Nike/adidas coaches. Having that direct line means kids/families don't have to listen to HS coaches or even middle school coaches.

To a much lesser degree, the allure of one and done also makes it so top players and close to top players believe they don't even have to listen to college coaches.
 
PhDeac said:
How do you play with "discipline" against players with ridiculous handles and range to 30 feet? Or 6-11 guys who can score from anywhere on the court? Or guys built like tanks who can still shoot?
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You could add: for ~40 mins in 82 games, sometimes on back-to-back-to-back nights of games played across the country. The toll a regular season + post season takes on these guy's bodies is insane, especially if you make it deep into May or June. Expecting players to give "100% effort at all times" is silly. It's bad for your body and ultimately the team longterm.
 
Coach O said:
There were poor fundamental players and players not giving 100% back then as well. You have romanticized an era. That's fine. I still watch Mary Tyler Moore and All in the Family reruns. Did players back then play with more "discipline?" Yes. That led to aspects of the game that you seem to enjoy. I do as well. Today, the level of athleticism is SOOOO much improved, and that has led to a style of play that is different. Drive and kick basketball has evolved from that improved athleticism and the 3 point line.

Both eras are fun and entertaining.
Click to expand...

RJKarl said:
There a co-#1 reasons why fundamentals have deteriorated in basketball - sneaker companies and AAU. The third, but very, very, very distant reason is the inane one and done rule.

What's even worse is how the AAU is working so tightly with the sneaker companies. They start reaching out for kids in 5th/6th grades. Kids get free stuff really early and the shoe companies start with the families in middle school. They can clearly see that their school coaches aren't that important to getting scholarships or even to the NBA. You play for a Nike/adidas AAU team; are coached by Nike/adidas coaches. Having that direct line means kids/families don't have to listen to HS coaches or even middle school coaches.

To a much lesser degree, the allure of one and done also makes it so top players and close to top players believe they don't even have to listen to college coaches.
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Coach O.... You nailed the way I feel about the game.

RJ.... That was a great post. Everything you said was dead-on.....and it is a sad situation for the game of basketball.

I guess that I just got spoiled from watching 25 years of Bob Knight's teams at Indiana. As far as I am concerned, they played the game the way it is supposed to be played..

You don't see that kind of basketball anymore, which is why I no longer have any desire to go to another basketball game or even to watch one on television. I care nothing about watching a bunch of showoffs with poor fundamentals and a shitty attitude.

For many years I only felt that way about the NBA, but for several years now I've felt that college basketball was just as worthless as the NBA.
 
How sweet would it be to watch a modern-day all-star team play a BKF nostalgia era all-star team and just run them out of the building? I'd pay my way to Randleman to sit in BKF's free house to watch that one with him.
 
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