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EFTON ELIGIBLE!!

IAppreciateIt said:
I disagree pretty strongly here. To Ph's point, we might need him out on the perimeter based on our lack of depth. However:

1/ The "4" as a position is effectively dead. This happened super quick, but pretty much every team plays 4 out these days, and the best ones (most of the NBA) are trying to play 5 out (tons of youtube videos talking about this). 4 is still used as a position designation, but not really practically different from any other wing position. Basketball went from 2 bigs --> "stretch 4" --> 4 out --> 5 out in a decade. Faster in the NBA but college is close. So "5 vs. 4" is really the same as "big man vs. wing" -- obviously oversimplified.

2/ Carr is way better as a big on offense. He's awesome in the PnR and a good finisher down low. His ability to shoot the 3 means we can play 5 out and clear the lane for our guards. If we try to use him as the roll-man when he's not the 5, it means you have to play the center on the perimeter. We saw when we tried to do that with Marsh, his dude was just sagging off crowding the paint. I suppose you can get by on offense this way if you have a 5 who can shoot like Keller. On the other hand, some of our worst plays are when Carr tries to create from the perimeter off the dribble -- he just can't do it. (I don't have any data on this, but he's way more comfortable with his back to the basket, but when starting at the perimeter he usually ends up way too far away and doing a bunch of pivots and pump fakes to no avail)

3/ Carr is way better defensively in the paint than on the perimeter. He's a good rim protector and shotblocker, but not a great perimeter defender. I would guess most of his fouls come when trailing a perimeter guy and trying to contest a shot from behind / the side. He isn't super great at 1v1 post defense which is probably the biggest weakness here, but it's not worse than when he tries to defend a quicker wing.

For any 247 subscribers, the data from the article I mentioned clearly backs all this up, imo.

tl;dr: Carr would have been a good "4" five to ten years ago, but the way teams are playing today he's much better on both ends at center. That said, he's versatile enough to play on the wing as well. Also I'm hopeful Reid will be a viable threat from 3 which would allow us to still use Carr as the main PnR guy without getting the lane too clogged.
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The prevalence of a 5-out system is the biggest farce in sports today. The only team that even remotely played 5 out with any success was the Warriors, and they still had Draymond who mixed it up down low more than most traditional 5s. Both the NBA regular season MVP and Finals MVP just last season were low post 5s who do their best and most work in the paint, and arguably are at their "worst" (relatively speaking) when they are on the perimeter. The thought that the center position in basketball is dead is ridiculous - it is as valuable to winning basketball now as it has ever been. The difference is simply the attitude of the players and the lack of big guys willing to spend all game in the post. 30 years ago Pat Ewing would never dreamed of taking a 3; now every 7-fotter thinks he is Steph (and the resulting awful shots clearly do not make him Steph).

The Warriors had/have two of the ten greatest shooters in basketball history (three when Durant was there), and a revolving supporting cast of other all-star level players. A college team trying to emulate them is fucking idiocy.

Stick Reid's ass under the basket and let Carr play a modern 4 next to him. That means he gets in the paint to rebound a large portion of the time, but also takes outside shots when needed. It does NOT means he stands on the perimeter the whole game, running from 3pt line to 3pt line hoisting bad threes. That is a recipe to lose.
 
OblongPickle said:
It's so sad that I have no idea who any of these people are except for a few names from a year or two ago. College basketball was my EVERYTHING growing up...we'd watch ACC Tournament games in Calculus class and I'd talk about it with 2 of my teachers all of the time.

Then [Redacted] and Manning came and I went from caring about basketball whole-heartedly to literally not watching a single game in years.

I wish I could be as excited as you all, but I'll take your word for it that this kid will do wonders for us. He certainly seems like a good kid who is excited to be here.

I hope to join you all on the bandwagon when we make the NCAA Tournament in March!
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Oh brother I’m so tired of hearing this.
 
OblongPickle said:
Jesus...sorry.

Here ya go:



OH HELL YES!!!


FUCK YESS!!!


OMG WE'RE GONNA BE SO GOOD!!!


YESSSS!!!


SWEEEEET!!!


OMG YESSS!!!


ALRIIIIIIGHT!!!!!


OH YEAAAAA!!!!



Forget what I said, I'm gone.
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I mean I don't get why you're crying about your lack of interest? You said yourself you don't watch any games so duh you wouldn't be able to name the players. Sounds like a YOU problem
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
The prevalence of a 5-out system is the biggest farce in sports today. The only team that even remotely played 5 out with any success was the Warriors, and they still had Draymond who mixed it up down low more than most traditional 5s. Both the NBA regular season MVP and Finals MVP just last season were low post 5s who do their best and most work in the paint, and arguably are at their "worst" (relatively speaking) when they are on the perimeter. The thought that the center position in basketball is dead is ridiculous - it is as valuable to winning basketball now as it has ever been. The difference is simply the attitude of the players and the lack of big guys willing to spend all game in the post. 30 years ago Pat Ewing would never dreamed of taking a 3; now every 7-fotter thinks he is Steph (and the resulting awful shots clearly do not make him Steph).

The Warriors had/have two of the ten greatest shooters in basketball history (three when Durant was there), and a revolving supporting cast of other all-star level players. A college team trying to emulate them is fucking idiocy.

Stick Reid's ass under the basket and let Carr play a modern 4 next to him. That means he gets in the paint to rebound a large portion of the time, but also takes outside shots when needed. It does NOT means he stands on the perimeter the whole game, running from 3pt line to 3pt line hoisting bad threes. That is a recipe to lose.
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Feels like mostly one big strawman here (nobody said the center position was dead), but I'll address it anyway since I think it's an interesting topic.

To reiterate: the center position is not dead. Nobody is saying it's dead. Playing five-out does not mean playing without a center (it does mean your center has to be able to shoot 3s and generally be able to possess the ball on the perimeter)

Granted, years back there were some grumblings that the center was a dying breed -- but that wasn't true. The power forward is what died, and it died so that centers could live. You need four guys on the perimeter to give a center enough room to work in the paint, and you need four out so that the lane doesn't get clogged with rim protectors forcing you to take a bunch of shitty contested mid-range jumpers.

So sticking Reid's ass under the basket -- sure. But telling another player to be in the paint "a large portion of the time" would be crippling, which is why nobody does it.

But you didn't even touch on what I think makes having a good center way, way more important which is on defense -- modern offenses are set up to get wing players into the paint, so having a reliable rim protector down low is massively important -- we've seen how badly we've gotten torched with guys like Marsh and Keller trying to serve in that role. (This also circles back to why 5-out offenses are in vogue -- they pull rim protectors away from the basket and make scoring at the rim much easier).

I do think the fundamental insight that drove all this change is the understanding that midrange jumpers are not good shots and that a team should try to get shots at the rim, and if that's not possible shoot threes. It turns out those two things generally reinforce each other (the threat of the three makes it easy to get shots at the rim and vice-versa), which resulted in where we are now. So if you disagree with that and still think midrange shots are good, then it tracks that everything teams are doing is dumb. I will admit that these offenses are not the most fun to watch, so it's unfortunate they are the "best" way to play.
 
2&2 finally vindicated after years of telling us how great Embiid was gonna be
 
I don't even understand what the conclusion of this argument is. Carr sits the bench while Reid plays Center? The two never see the court together?
 
MichDeac25 said:
I don't even understand what the conclusion of this argument is. Carr sits the bench while Reid plays Center? The two never see the court together?
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It's a very idealistic discussion.

Carr and Reid are going to play a lot of minutes together because they are (expected to be) two of our best players. The ideal position for Carr is interesting, but he's going to be playing most of his minutes with Reid most likely and thereby not at the 5
 
IAppreciateIt said:
imo, the conclusion is marsh and keller should never see the court unless we have to due to foul trouble, injury, etc.

plan reid and carr's minutes accordingly.
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We needed literally no analysis to know that Marsh and Keller will not see the floor at the same time. Wait - you're saying Marsh is never going to see the floor. Pretty sure Marsh is going to see minutes.
 
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