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Steve Forbes credibility watch

PhDeac said:
I’m far less optimistic than I was a month ago.

This was a disastrous finish to the season and I don’t see much reason to believe Forbes will have a better November or late Feb/March than he has so far. His best trait is his ability to bring in first team All-ACC transfers but that’s not even enough to get the job done.

I still believe there are deeper problems with Wake sports responsible for these predictable collapses. But absent a complete culture change, we need a coach or special players who can change things and I don’t know if Forbes can do it.
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Good post! To add one caveat, Does Currie have the courage to do what is necessary to right this ship or not??? We all know how his predecessor would have probably handled this.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
What are the deeper problems?
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I've been reading a bit about the concept of organizational hubris and I think it applies to Wake sports.

Here's where I've mentioned it a bit last week.

PhDeac said:
Yeah. That's part of the Wake institutional DNA like State being the scrappy underdogs who play hard in the postseason. Much like Wake loves to present itself as a top 25 university even though only one ranking has occasionally put Wake in the top 25 over the last almost 30 years. That's why the biggest donor took the team out to celebrate at Peter Lugar's before the ACC Tournament. That's why our administrators think facilities = success.
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PhDeac said:
I've been reading a bit about the concept of organizational hubris and I think it applies to Wake sports.

Here's where I've mentioned it a bit last week.
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As someone who used to work in the AD, I can honestly say that hubris is far from the problem. Currie is confident in a way that stands out. It’s why there was massive staff turnover in his arrival. Wake struggles with being too humble way more than being too confident.

My honest characterization of Wake athletics culturally is that everything requires more work. We are under resourced as a result of being so small that’s unavoidable. We can put together a great home court, but not for a full season we can have some stars, but struggle with depth. We can keep good HCs but struggle to keep talented assistants.

Your comment about state being a scrappy underdog is such a sham because they have no reason to be an underdog. In most situations they just aren’t.
 
Yeah what? Ph didn’t you create “TIERS” to mock state’s sense of unearned self importance? Scrappy underdogs my ass.
 
06deacon said:
Yeah what? Ph didn’t you create “TIERS” to mock state’s sense of unearned self importance? Scrappy underdogs my ass.
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State fans. The men's basketball program has earned the "Cardiac Pack" title time and time again.

We've got plenty of evidence of Wake administrators and fans overestimating the status of the university and programs and failing to do the work down the season.
 
PhDeac said:
State fans. The men's basketball program has earned the "Cardiac Pack" title time and time again.

We've got plenty of evidence of Wake administrators and fans overestimating the status of the university and programs and failing to do the work down the season.
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Lol. I remember talking to Jim Grobe in the hotel at Nebraska and his response about the game was “I hope we play good”. I’m just not sold on hubris being the problem at Wake. We have a tendency to prematurely celebrate, but it’s more out of starvation for success than and expectation for it.
 
PhDeac said:
State fans. The men's basketball program has earned the "Cardiac Pack" title time and time again.

We've got plenty of evidence of Wake administrators and fans overestimating the status of the university and programs and failing to do the work down the season.
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I agree with this completely WRT sports (I still think Wake is an excellent school rankings be damned). See attitude post Duke, baseball early season, etc. I want a us versus the world mentality and play with a huge chip on our shoulder. Thought Forbes was gonna be this way, but appear he's not. Dont think Clawson is.
 
PhDeac said:
State fans. The men's basketball program has earned the "Cardiac Pack" title time and time again.

We've got plenty of evidence of Wake administrators and fans overestimating the status of the university and programs and failing to do the work down the season.
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Ok so your wake analysis applies to wake fans but not to state fans?

state football under Amato and doeren is hardly a scrappy underdog attitude. And just because state basketball made a miracle run this year doesn’t prove they embrace that attitude either.
 
So to back up - Forbes defs has some hits in recruiting / portal but he has Canka, Marsh, Keller, Clark, MMM who are all apparently unplayable. Isn’t this on him? I mean none of those dudes are transferring to P5 programs next year
 
I’m going to say it again. The biggest problem is the perception of our conference. We need to get mad about it. Our team went 3-3 against the 4 ACC teams who make up 25% of the Sweet 16 and went 1-1 against UVA. And we finished 5th, just like 2022. And we got left out because the perception was that the ACC is down, the SEC is great, the Big 12 is great, the MWC is great. Spare me. Forbes has done enough to get in the tournament 2/3 years if the league is judged fairly.
 
Sure. But part of that perception is because Wake didn't beat Georgia, Utah, and LSU and other ACC teams didn't get those types of wins either.
 
I wonder if we’ll see changes to the assistant coach lineup this offseason.
 
Oh come on. You know not having Reid matters. We literally participated in an SEC/ACC challenge and tied and they got 8 bids.
 
wakelaw13 said:
I’m going to say it again. The biggest problem is the perception of our conference. We need to get mad about it. Our team went 3-3 against the 4 ACC teams who make up 25% of the Sweet 16 and went 1-1 against UVA. And we finished 5th, just like 2022. And we got left out because the perception was that the ACC is down, the SEC is great, the Big 12 is great, the MWC is great. Spare me. Forbes has done enough to get in the tournament 2/3 years if the league is judged fairly.
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Spare me. This team would have gotten bounced in the 1st round. The last 8’gsmes showed that.
 
It's a numbers game. If the ACC had done enough in non-conference play to elevate itself things would be different. That's what other conferences were able to manage.

I don't think it's the best system because non-conference play is completely at the start of the year (didn't use to be that way) and consists of 1/3 of our schedule (also, didn't use to be near that stark). But it's the reality we live in
 
wakelaw13 said:
Oh come on. You know not having Reid matters. We literally participated in an SEC/ACC challenge and tied and they got 8 bids.
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I'm not the one whose perception matters.
 
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