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WFU Hoops: '24-'25 Roster Construction Thread: (-) Carr, Monsanto, Ituka, Clark, Miller, Marsh, Keller, Canka / (+) Spillers, Biliew, Cosby

The main purpose of all the old NCAA rules - the transfer rules, the rules against paying players and against allowing players to make money on their name or otherwise, etc. - was to control recruiting and to try and even the playing field. It wasn't to exploit the players - no matter what people might try to say now. Did some players get exploited anyway? Sure. Did the rules or their enforcement do a great job of creating that level playing field - probably not. The NCAA enforcement was always uneven and seemingly capricious. But, at least teams did sometimes get caught and get punished - there were guardrails and at least the threat of consequences.

And those rules created at least some team stability and the ability to build programs. Those rules created the great product we had that drove the value of the sport through the roof - leading to the arms race in coaching salaries and facilities building and the huge TV contracts. Leading to more and more public sentiment for allowing players to share in the largesse. The NCAA tried to adjust by allowing players to receive living costs stipends, etc. but it was too little, too late.

The final result of all this being the lawsuits that have gutted the ability of the NCAA to govern the sport - leading to the chaos we are suffering through now.

College basketball is essentially a victim of its own success.
 
Seeya said:
So guess you are saying you are not interested in this exciting new offer from AD?….

“NEW: Annual Seat Rights Program Announced at Men's Basketball”
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LOL. You have drawn a very good conclusion.

I'll continue to support the program but this is about how I see things at this point.....

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So who makes the NCAA tournament first:
UL, GT, VT, BC, SMU or Wake
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
College sports is dead. It’s a worse product than the pros while at the same time operating with completely ludicrous rules. Imagine if you followed a professional team in a league that had no salary cap, no contracts, every player was a free agent at the end of the season, and the players salary was crowdsourced from fans. The only thing holding college sports together is nostalgia for what use to be and dumb loyalty to a school brand, both are fading.
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Never thought of it like this before but you’re pretty much exactly right. Like, why even bother.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Yeah I think overall the RTQ team only goes off of what the staff tells them. Obviously something changed from that post a week and a half ago, and when he made his decision. Not sure whether that's money, something internal, or something external (wants to be closer to home for example).

Don't think it's really fair to be critical of the RTQ info that's coming in. They're not blowing smoke from what I can tell - they're communicating the best information they have at the time. Obviously the information is situational and timely and can change quickly given the nature of the beast that is the portal.
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I think we can be critical of them given they’re now an integral player in putting a roster together. If Forbes said Carr was staying two weeks ago, only to turn around be like “lol jk”, I think it would be fair to wonder if he was on top of his shit. Given that RTQ is supposed to be putting together offers competitive enough to convince people to play for us, not sure why they’d be treated differently
 
College sports died when TV contracts started making coaches and administrators and everyone else rich, except for the people who make the product—the players.

There is no good reason that college and universities should have become minor league sports teams attached to institutions of higher learning, but that’s what happened.

This is all simply the market correcting itself. It will be wild for a little bit until it levels out.

Nowhere else in the world do colleges and universities manage billion dollar athletic empires. It’s a really weird system if you think about it. Probably time it’s dying its death.
 
DavisB2 said:
Great point. My son could have gone to Wake. He also got into William and Mary early decision. I begged him to go to WM at 22k per year rather than WFU at 55k per year. He made the right choice.


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Indeed, a great point. Similar situation with our daughter. Chose the University of Florida with free tuition and an additional scholarship that covers the bulk of her room & board. In her case, though, we really couldn't get her interested in Wake. She just wanted to go to a larger school.
 
I haven't read the last 13 pages of this thread so this might have been covered.

Forbes recruited to set up the 2024-25 season. He had a players with eligibility and without the option to transfer a second time without sitting out a season. The court system ruled that players could transfer without penalty as often as they wish. Two year plan shot to hell. Miller is gone. Carr is gone. Sallis may return but I doubt it. There could be more.

Carr is making the smart play. He had agreed with Forbes and RTQ on money and looked to be a lock. He may have recieved a better evaluation from the NBA than anticipated and decided to actively pursue the draft. His decison to enter the portal allows Forbes to actively pursue a replacement immediately. It also positions Carr to get a much higher money offer to transfer. He will enter the portal as a late top tier player. There are always teams looking to add quality after the market has been picked over and they are willing to pay top dollar for that missing piece. There is a reason Top 50 high school players get a big bump in the rankings if they wait until spring to sign. The other possibility is that he recieved a much better financial offer than anticipated from another college and has decided to accept it. Forget the past, college basketball is about the money and unlimited free agency gives the players the opportunity to change their mind at any time.

For a coach, the roster is now a one year assembly. If you count on two years from a player you are a fool. Forbes may love his players but it doesn't appear that they love him. Steve needs to put the best players he can find on the roster for next year. Given the departures, he should try to sign a starting lineup for 2024-25 then let the players compete for starting positions next fall. Forbes has extensive junior college experience and has been succesful developing a new team on a yearly basis. This could turn out to be to his advantage.

We figured it would be the Wild West. Absolute mayhem without any rules is what college basketball has become. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
 
BlackjackMc said:
I haven't read the last 13 pages of this thread so this might have been covered.

Forbes recruited to set up the 2024-25 season. He had a players with eligibility and without the option to transfer a second time without sitting out a season. The court system ruled that players could transfer without penalty as often as they wish. Two year plan shot to hell. Miller is gone. Carr is gone. Sallis may return but I doubt it. There could be more.

Carr is making the smart play. He had agreed with Forbes and RTQ on money and looked to be a lock. He may have recieved a better evaluation from the NBA than anticipated and decided to actively pursue the draft. His decison to enter the portal allows Forbes to actively pursue a replacement immediately. It also positions Carr to get a much higher money offer to transfer. He will enter the portal as a late top tier player. There are always teams looking to add quality after the market has been picked over and they are willing to pay top dollar for that missing piece. There is a reason Top 50 high school players get a big bump in the rankings if they wait until spring to sign. The other possibility is that he recieved a much better financial offer than anticipated from another college and has decided to accept it. Forget the past, college basketball is about the money and unlimited free agency gives the players the opportunity to change their mind at any time.

For a coach, the roster is now a one year assembly. If you count on two years from a player you are a fool. Forbes may love his players but it doesn't appear that they love him. Steve needs to put the best players he can find on the roster for next year. Given the departures, he should try to sign a starting lineup for 2024-25 then let the players compete for starting positions next fall. Forbes has extensive junior college experience and has been succesful developing a new team on a yearly basis. This could turn out to be to his advantage.

We figured it would be the Wild West. Absolute mayhem without any rules is what college basketball has become. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
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The only player that is transferring so far that could not have transferred previously is Boopie. Carr would have still been able to transfer as a grad.
 
deacdixieboy said:
The only player that is transferring so far that could not have transferred previously is Boopie. Carr would have still been able to transfer as a grad.
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Ituka and Monsanto also transferring for the second time

Have not read whether Damari will be a grad transfer
 
thatguy2016 said:
Ituka and Monsanto also transferring for the second time

Have not read whether Damari will be a grad transfer
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Forbes, under the rules in place last year, recruited a group of guys he expected to be the core of the team for two years. Then the court changed the rules. So now he is back to recruiting a large group.

If there is no longer any significant expectation of guys staying for multiple years, put the emphasis on finding more "one year wonders," like Alondes Williams and Tyree Appleby. I can't imagine that the unique grad program is is requirement anymore.

Wake's rule that transfers need to complete at least 60 hours at Wake will be more of an impediment now that the Covid classes are out of the system.

Coaches will be less likely to redshirt a guy for developmental reasons. Why not play a guy 10 or 15 minutes as a true freshman? He'll be gone anyway by the time he would be a 5th year guy. If he is good, he'll grab a bag and go, maybe up a level. If not, his move may well be down a level for (a smaller bag and) minutes so he can "show case his skills."
 
guitardeac said:
Yes. Half the players on his team were going to opt out of the bowl game to look ahead to the possibility of transferring. Most were highly recruited 2nd teamers who wanted to cash in. The hell with trying to win a game. It's silly to blame Forbes. Saban is I think a pretty good coach and he couldn't keep his players. It's the screwed up system. Which is why I didn't watch a total of 1 hour of college basketball this season, and I have had season tickets more years than not over the last 30 years.
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Not really sure you should be commenting on college bball if you watched 1 hour this year.
 
awakegirl said:
Im an emotional sports person but reflecting on all this, I honestly think I’m going to try to turn into a casual fan. Why am I giving monthly money to RTQ? Not their fault, but it did nothing collectively. Wake is just in its flop era all around…
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I'd say wait until atleast this transfer season is done before making an over arching decision on RTQ. And while I don't think it is their fault, if the money is not propelling us to be able to either keep existing talent, or get new top tier talent then yes it is a waste. But let's see how it plays out this offseason at least before anyone decides that for sure.
 
Kentucky would love to grab a kid like Carr given their recent attrition. U-Conn might even be interested for added depth. He’ll be visiting some good programs.
 
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