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Serious NFL offense question

TheReff

TheReff

Rod Griffin
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Can some of you football gurus explain to me what the main differences are between the "pistol", the "wildcat", the "west coast" vs the plain old "shot gun"?
 
I'm no guru. But the pistol is a formation, not an offense. As is the shotgun. The pistol is when the QB lines up in a shortened shotgun, say three steps behind the center instead of five, and has a tailback lined up behind him.
 
The "wildcat" is any formation in which a RB (or perhaps a WR) lines up in the QB position instead of the QB.

The "west coast" is a style of offense that frequently uses the shotgun formation.
 
West coast is really pass heavy. Lots of passes underneath.
 
OK. Kinda knew the West Coast was a lot of passing. Shot gun is what everybody is doing. But trying to pick up on what the 49ers are doing with Kaepernick and the pistol that makes it so different. He seems to run more from it or something. They act like it is far more injury prone & he won't last as long, but it was a highly effective offense for him at Nevada.

Wildcat I know uses the running back in there to run more, but he is a guy who I guess can pass the ball with a little effeciency so he is a double threat. I guess using the pistol with Kaepernick being able to run is what makes him so dangerous.

But that seems to put him in danger, just like Vick & RG III and the rest of the running quarterbacks have been and I guess why the pros have never gone to the option or wishbone. So I guess my real question is trying to understand more of the pistol. I certainly like what I see and can see why they use him instead of Alex Smith.
 
The pistol seems to lend itself to the read option... it's what RGIII and Alfie Morris ran from a lot this year. When the RB sweeps out from behind the QB, he can see whether the LB cuts inside (hand off to the RB) or checks the RB (keep and run around him).

I'm far far far from an expert though.
 
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All QBs are in danger, just in different ways. He could be a dead man in the pocket or running in the middle of the field. A good QB has to use the rules to his advantage to maximize yards and his health by throwing the ball away or sliding at the right time.

The pistol is different because it helps make the fakes quicker and allows the RB to get the ball going downhill as opposed to a shotgun handoff. What distinguishes what Kaepernick is doing compared to what Steve Young did in the West Coast back when it was as novel as the pistol formation is now is that Young did a lot of bootleg and traditional scrambling. It's the difference between a running QB which is still very new to the NFL and a mobile QB which has been unique but not particularly new (i.e. Fran Tarkenton).
 
Wildcat is really more of a throwback offense to the old Wing-T, Single Wing, etc. Typically you don't use your primary passer for durability reasons.
 
None of these offenses or formations is suited to the unique talents of Michael Vick.
 
The wildcat leverages blocking advantages because you eliminate the pass for the most part. It's a running scheme mainly but since the runner takes the direct snap you get an extra blocker you don't have with a handoff.

kaepernick and russel Wilson seem to have a better sense of how to avoid direct hits when running the pistol than griffin. Some of it is a style when the QB leaves the pocket
 
Theoretically you get an extra blocker with the wildcat but that advantage is mitigated by having a QB lined up at WR in order to limit defensive substitutions.

I'd be more in favor of the wildcat if teams went balls out with no QB and a jumbo set.
 
QUOTE=WindyCityDeac;1103614]The wildcat leverages blocking advantages because you eliminate the pass for the most part. It's a running scheme mainly but since the runner takes the direct snap you get an extra blocker you don't have with a handoff.

kaepernick and russel Wilson seem to have a better sense of how to avoid direct hits when running the pistol than griffin. Some of it is a style when the QB leaves the pocket[/QUOTE]

I guess what I notice more than anything is that both Kaepernick & Wilson seem to break off more long runs than most QB's so it seems that is part of this pistol, at least for SF Wilson has always been mighty elusive back to his NC State days.
 
Reff, what do you make of this story I came across involving Allen Iverson and NBA refs:
Iverson was fined $25,000 by the NBA for criticizing referee Steve Javie following a game between the Nuggets and Iverson's former team, the Philadelphia 76ers, played January 2, 2007. During the course of the game, Iverson committed two technical fouls and was ejected from the game. After the game, Iverson said, "I thought I got fouled on that play, and I said I thought that he was calling the game personal I should have known that I couldn't say anything anyway. It's been something personal with me and him since I got in the league. This was just the perfect game for him to try and make me look bad."[42]

Former referee Tim Donaghy supported the claim that Javie had a longstanding hatred for Iverson in his book, Personal Foul: A First-Person Account of the Scandal that Rocked the NBA, which a Florida business group published through a self-publishing arm of Amazon.com[43] after it was dropped by a division of Random House, who cited liability issues after reviewing the manuscript.[44]

In a December 2009 interview with 60 Minutes, Donaghy said he and fellow referees thought the punishment was too light. Before Iverson's Nuggets played the Utah Jazz on January 6, 2007, Donaghy said he and the two other officials working the game agreed not to give Iverson favorable calls as a way to "teach him a lesson". Iverson attempted 12 free throws, more than any other player on either team. On 12 drives to the basket, he drew five fouls, three of which Donaghy whistled himself, and did not receive a call on one play in which he was obviously fouled by Utah's Mehmet Okur.[45]
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Www.smartfootball.com. He publishes a lot on Grantland. Pistol allows for more creativity, IMO and gets the RB heading down hill. It also allows for a bit more hiding of the football so I hear as the QB has turn away from half the defense. The major tenet of the spread option or pistol is too regain the #s advantage at the point of attack by making the QB a viable option to advance the ball.
 
The pistol formation was invented by Nevada's coach, Chris Ault, around 2003/2004. Basically, it combines the shotgun spread attack with the read option. The basic formation has the QB in shotgun with a RB behind the QB. However, in the Pistol the QB is roughly 3 or 4 yards behind the center, unlike the normal shotgun where he lines up of roughly 7 yards. As a result, the RB is roughly 3 yards behind the QB, and thus 7 yards behind the center. This creates a few unique advantages. First, the QB is closer to the line of scrimmage, and this allows him to have a better and quicker read of the defense. Also, the ball is snapped to the QB much quicker in the Pistol compared to the Shotgun because he is closer to the LOS. Next, the QB has two options, pass or run. If he chooses to run the ball, then he uses the "Read Option" and normally will read what the action of the weak side defense end/sometimes OLD depending on if the defense is 4-3 or 3-4 (The weak side is the opposite side of the tight end on the O-line). Under the basic premise, the RB runs between the tackle and guard, but if the QB keeps the ball he runs outside the tackle.

Lets assume the defense is a basic 4-3 with the tight end on the right side of the line, and the ball is snapped. Both the QB and RB start to run to the left side of the line. On the O-line, the center will take out the DT, the guard takes out the middle LB, and the tackle will either take out the DE or weak side LB depending on who is closer and what action the DE takes. Let us assume the DE crashes in, and tackles the RB, then the QB takes the ball and runs outside the tackle. On the other hand, if the DE plays outside, and contains the QB, then a lane is opened up between the OT and OG, and the RB runs between them.

What makes the Pistol deadly is how it can setup the play action pass. Again, in its basic form, you have 3 WR and 1 RB. Assume that it is the 2nd Qtr and during the 1st Qtr you ran the Read Option on 1st down every time. However, this time you decide to fake the run, and pass. As a result, the LBs first response will be to run to the LOS to stop the run, and the middle of the field/behind the LBs will be wide open. Therefore, in a 3 WR set with a TE, you can send either the TE or 1 of the WR in the middle of the field, and he will be wide open. Again, this is just its basic form. In a nutshell, this is what the 49ers did to the Falcons last week.

In the NFL and even in college, they are using different formations with the Pistol to confuse the defense. For example, the 49ers sometimes place 2 RBs on both sides of the QB, and this confuses the defense because they dont know which side the "Read Option" will go to. Also, they even had 3 RBs at times, two on either side of the QB and one behind him. However, a lot of the formations are based on the personal that can be used.

The Wildcat is when a Non-Qb, normally a RB or WR (most of the time they played QB in high school) lines up in shotgun and takes a direct snap. He can either run the ball, or pass it. In theory, this allows the offense an extra blocker because you do not have to account for the QB anymore because you eliminated him as the middleman, and got the ball to the playmaker right away. However, the main problem with this is that the RB or WR is not that great of a passer, and the defense will stack the box with 7 or even 8 guys thus making it very difficult to run the ball. Even though there is an extra blocker, for the Wild Cat to be successful you really need the person receiving the snap to be a real passing threat.

Now, the counter is that the QB can not afford to take that many hits, aka RGIII. The latter is correct in theory, but IMO for the Pistol to work in the NFL all you need is the threat of the QB to run. For example, before RGIII got hurt against the Ravens he was running it roughly 8 to 10 times a game and averaged 6 yards a carry. On the other hand, Kapernack only ran it 5 to 6 times a game and averaged 6 yards a carry. Furthermore, in the Atlanta game he only ran the ball twice. Just the threat of him running the ball had the Falcons move their DE more towards the outside, and this opened up running lanes between the tackle and guard and allowed Gore to average 4 yards a carry.

IMO, the Wildcat was a fad and defenses were able to quickly adjust to it. However, I believe the Pistol is legit assuming you have the right personal to run it, starting with the QB. The reason it is dangerous, and different than the Wildcat, is due to a legit passing threat. Therefore, the defense has to respect the passing game, and can not stack the box. As a result, this opens up the running game with the "Read Option". Not only does the QB have to be a running threat, a passing threat, but the most important part is that he has to understand how to read the defense. If the QB is unable to read the defense, then he can have all the physical skills in the world, but it wont matter. The best example for he ideal QB is Kapernack because not only does he have the physical tools, but he learned it in college under its inventor. Also, towards the end of the season, the Seahawks started running the Pistol with Russell Wilson. An example of a QB that has the physical tools, but not the intelligence is Cam Newton.

Finally, someone was talking about the West Coast Offense. In theory, a "Pure/True West Coast offense is based on the following. Use the running game to open up vertical passing lanes. Then use TEs and RBs to setup a horizontal passing game that stretches the field, and thus keeps the defense off balance. Also, the timing of the passing game is essential in the West Coast, and is based off of either 3, 5, or 7 step drop backs. The West Coast offense requires a team to have a TE that can catch the ball, and a RB that can catch the ball in the flat.
 
BamaDeac said:
The pistol formation was invented by Nevada's coach, Chris Ault, around 2003/2004. Basically, it combines the shotgun spread attack with the read option. The basic formation has the QB in shotgun with a RB behind the QB. However, in the Pistol the QB is roughly 3 or 4 yards behind the center, unlike the normal shotgun where he lines up of roughly 7 yards. As a result, the RB is roughly 3 yards behind the QB, and thus 7 yards behind the center. This creates a few unique advantages. First, the QB is closer to the line of scrimmage, and this allows him to have a better and quicker read of the defense. Also, the ball is snapped to the QB much quicker in the Pistol compared to the Shotgun because he is closer to the LOS. Next, the QB has two options, pass or run. If he chooses to run the ball, then he uses the "Read Option" and normally will read what the action of the weak side defense end/sometimes OLD depending on if the defense is 4-3 or 3-4 (The weak side is the opposite side of the tight end on the O-line). Under the basic premise, the RB runs between the tackle and guard, but if the QB keeps the ball he runs outside the tackle.

Lets assume the defense is a basic 4-3 with the tight end on the right side of the line, and the ball is snapped. Both the QB and RB start to run to the left side of the line. On the O-line, the center will take out the DT, the guard takes out the middle LB, and the tackle will either take out the DE or weak side LB depending on who is closer and what action the DE takes. Let us assume the DE crashes in, and tackles the RB, then the QB takes the ball and runs outside the tackle. On the other hand, if the DE plays outside, and contains the QB, then a lane is opened up between the OT and OG, and the RB runs between them.

What makes the Pistol deadly is how it can setup the play action pass. Again, in its basic form, you have 3 WR and 1 RB. Assume that it is the 2nd Qtr and during the 1st Qtr you ran the Read Option on 1st down every time. However, this time you decide to fake the run, and pass. As a result, the LBs first response will be to run to the LOS to stop the run, and the middle of the field/behind the LBs will be wide open. Therefore, in a 3 WR set with a TE, you can send either the TE or 1 of the WR in the middle of the field, and he will be wide open. Again, this is just its basic form. In a nutshell, this is what the 49ers did to the Falcons last week.

In the NFL and even in college, they are using different formations with the Pistol to confuse the defense. For example, the 49ers sometimes place 2 RBs on both sides of the QB, and this confuses the defense because they dont know which side the "Read Option" will go to. Also, they even had 3 RBs at times, two on either side of the QB and one behind him. However, a lot of the formations are based on the personal that can be used.

The Wildcat is when a Non-Qb, normally a RB or WR (most of the time they played QB in high school) lines up in shotgun and takes a direct snap. He can either run the ball, or pass it. In theory, this allows the offense an extra blocker because you do not have to account for the QB anymore because you eliminated him as the middleman, and got the ball to the playmaker right away. However, the main problem with this is that the RB or WR is not that great of a passer, and the defense will stack the box with 7 or even 8 guys thus making it very difficult to run the ball. Even though there is an extra blocker, for the Wild Cat to be successful you really need the person receiving the snap to be a real passing threat.

Now, the counter is that the QB can not afford to take that many hits, aka RGIII. The latter is correct in theory, but IMO for the Pistol to work in the NFL all you need is the threat of the QB to run. For example, before RGIII got hurt against the Ravens he was running it roughly 8 to 10 times a game and averaged 6 yards a carry. On the other hand, Kapernack only ran it 5 to 6 times a game and averaged 6 yards a carry. Furthermore, in the Atlanta game he only ran the ball twice. Just the threat of him running the ball had the Falcons move their DE more towards the outside, and this opened up running lanes between the tackle and guard and allowed Gore to average 4 yards a carry.

IMO, the Wildcat was a fad and defenses were able to quickly adjust to it. However, I believe the Pistol is legit assuming you have the right personal to run it, starting with the QB. The reason it is dangerous, and different than the Wildcat, is due to a legit passing threat. Therefore, the defense has to respect the passing game, and can not stack the box. As a result, this opens up the running game with the "Read Option". Not only does the QB have to be a running threat, a passing threat, but the most important part is that he has to understand how to read the defense. If the QB is unable to read the defense, then he can have all the physical skills in the world, but it wont matter. The best example for he ideal QB is Kapernack because not only does he have the physical tools, but he learned it in college under its inventor. Also, towards the end of the season, the Seahawks started running the Pistol with Russell Wilson. An example of a QB that has the physical tools, but not the intelligence is Cam Newton.

Finally, someone was talking about the West Coast Offense. In theory, a "Pure/True West Coast offense is based on the following. Use the running game to open up vertical passing lanes. Then use TEs and RBs to setup a horizontal passing game that stretches the field, and thus keeps the defense off balance. Also, the timing of the passing game is essential in the West Coast, and is based off of either 3, 5, or 7 step drop backs. The West Coast offense requires a team to have a TE that can catch the ball, and a RB that can catch the ball in the flat.
Click to expand...

Bama, thanks. That gets it very well. Plus I just read the article on Kaepernick in SI where it talked about the RB being 3 to 4 yards behind the QB. Guess I just noticed more of his long runs coming from what seemed to be set plays.
 
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