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Back to the Future: Wake Forest returns to LB U

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Lectro

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The initial surge in Grobe's tenure was greatly influenced by his (staffs) ability to recognize kids who they could develop. LB was the position which served as the engine for the 2006 ACC Title.

Recruiting and creating a philosophy around it is a bit different for a school like Wake. The staff went for continuity and attempted to tie itself to "program over prospect". By his own admission Grobe's plan failed. Yet, in the last 2 and 1/2 years the entire philosophy has been upended. Grobe and company have returned to eye balling the raw prospects and the result has been the accumulation of the greatest collection of Linebacker prospects in the history of the school.

Spare me the incredulous responses...I AM the Asshole who told you who Aaron Curry and Arnoux were before they were ever Curry and Arnoux...back when both were 6'1-190 pound prospects short on pedigree but long on natural ability.

Anyway...this current collection is going the best in school history and just as ol' Lec used to claim "Wake's LB's would be right at home with any of the guys at USC (Rivers, et.al)

It begins -- similar to the acquisition of Abbate out of Georgia - with a stocky 6'0 and 235 pound motor out of the Peach State. Brandon Chubb is an uncanny precursor to the myriad talents Wake has at LB. Just like Jon, Brandon plays the game with a special passion. An intensity which serves to inspire the bevy of talented youngsters who will surround him these next 3 years.
 
A player by player look -- I'll exclude Olson and Allen -- 2 talented guys who better have their heads on a swivel. I'll also leave off the SR All ACC/America candidate Justin Jackson. Jackson is rated the 12th best Ath in college football (top 15 "freaks" I believe was the word used)

After Chubb :

#56 Teddy Matthews 6 foot 3 and 240+ pounds-- NFL Body type with sub 4.7 speed in the 40 which is outstanding for a MLB prospect. The guy is a natural Middle Linebacker and is precisely the kind of big man in the middle who can free things up for other guys to make plays.
 
I posted this on the recruiting thread a few weeks ago. I'd like your thoughts on it. Thanks.

[h=3]Grobe's success from 2006-08 was primarily due to...[/h]
PhDeac said:
Grobe's success from 2006-08 was primarily due to players who committed between Dec 2002 (Jon Abbate, Steve Justice, Kevin Marion, Kenny Moore - 2003 class) and late Jan/early Feb 2005 (John Russell, Riley Skinner, Boo Robinson - 2005 class). That's a 26 month period that ended over 8 years ago. Recruiting since then has been flat.

Think about that for a second. Grobe was recruiting based on the promise of going to the Seattle Bowl in 2002. BB&T Field was still Groves.

Most importantly, it was eons ago in terms of recruiting. YouTube went on line Feb 14, 2005. All of a sudden, it wasn't up to some guy from Scout or Rivals to find videos of a prospect and make them available in a crappy format behind a premium subscription. Players and their family/handlers could upload videos themselves and coaches could just scan the internet for clips of players to help fill out their classes. The odds of a player like Aaron Curry only have offers from ECU and Wake two weeks before signing day or a Boo Robinson being signed at the last minute are much lower now than they were pre-YouTube.

The bold is dead on. Our staff can't just bank on under the radar kids when the radar has gotten much larger.
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PhDeac said:
I posted this on the recruiting thread a few weeks ago. I'd like your thoughts on it. Thanks.

[h=3]Grobe's success from 2006-08 was primarily due to...[/h]
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Your assumptions about you tube are incorrect.

Tylor Harris from last year and Julian Thomas Jackson and Duke Ejiofor from this last cycle.

Aaron Curry was seen by everybody in the state...he was a standout in the East-West game as a 6'1 to 6'2 and 190 pound LB.
 
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Could you expand on that point?

Do you agree that our recruiting since that 26 month period has been flat?
 
PhDeac said:
Could you expand on that point?

Do you agree that our recruiting since that 26 month period has been flat?
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Yes it had been. I consider the last 2 classes as having broken free from being (HS) program centric. We have taken on guys who have run other guys out of school.

I do not like to negatively call out players ... my comments over the years were very limited when it came to guys like Hunter Haynes, Matt Woodlief, Riley Haynes, Scott Betros, etc.,

Today, I can hardly contain my enthisiasm over guys like JT Jackson and Lance Virgile...I mean, these are big time athletes and we have a ton of them at LB - the competitive pressure of those numbers will produce some diamonds.

I am not having to "reach" this year. A lot less "hope" in my voice and a lot more swagger.
 
Could you expand on the point about YouTube?

I'm not sure how you can say recruiting had been flat. You've had several complementary things to say about other players besides those.

We'll see what happens on the field. If the last two classes are an improvement, we'll see it on the field.
 
Lectro thinks everybody will be awesome. You think everybody will suck. The odds are going to be in your favor every time for Wake football, Ph.
 
Late in this last recruiting cycle the bigger name schools (that had ships left) realized that they had whiffed on Miami product, Wendell Dunn. His story is special. He has faced down some serious odds and has made it this far without any family. I don't want to talk about Wendell as a football prospect in light of his story...I want to focus on the guy's heart and determination to just get to this point.

Anyway, I will talk about Wendell the prospect later...there is plenty to say about this guys potential.
 
Lectro said:
Yes it had been. I consider the last 2 classes as having broken free from being (HS) program centric. We have taken on guys who have run other guys out of school.

I do not like to negatively call out players ... my comments over the years were very limited when it came to guys like Hunter Haynes, Matt Woodlief, Riley Haynes, Scott Betros, etc.,

Today, I can hardly contain my enthisiasm over guys like JT Jackson and Lance Virgile...I mean, these are big time athletes and we have a ton of them at LB - the competitive pressure of those numbers will produce some diamonds.

I am not having to "reach" this year. A lot less "hope" in my voice and a lot more swagger.
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PhDeac said:
Could you expand on the point about YouTube?

I'm not sure how you can say recruiting had been flat. You've had several complementary things to say about other players besides those.

We'll see what happens on the field. If the last two classes are an improvement, we'll see it on the field.
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Absolutely...there is nothing to be done about outside circumstances when evaluating players -- injuries and attitudes and doing some stupid college shit comes with the territory.

I thought James Adams was the better of the two Durham products (Gattis and the DB for ncsu). But, just when James was scheduled to take off (Rs Soph was 6'3 and 230 - entered at 190) against Clemson. Alas, he suffered a savage knee injury.

Heartsill, like Brody Overstreet before him...was an ALL ACC type talent that will not be realized. That's why it's called potential. Eric Berry was absolutely the most gifted of the trio ( Arnoux and Curry) -- that son of a gun was 6'3 and 255 and just knew where the play was going. You don't fucking average 22 tackles a game in Tidewater Virginia. That guy was a machine. Alas...talent down the tube. Jules Tucker almost went down the drain when he contemplated a transfer to Hampton before his JR season.
 
Back on track :

Kevis Jones -- entered WF as an All Purpose product - which, again--hurts the individual position grading when it comes to the star givers. See: Alphonso Smith as most prominent example of position rankings.

Anyway, Kevis came to Wake after having been a 6'2-195 pound all purpose guy -- WR / S / LB / RB / KR

Today he 6'2 and 230 pounds plus and possesses a 40" vertical and legit 4.5 legs. Long armed, great build, smart and a very enthusiastic player. Kevis loves some football. He is a junkie and is the other pea in the pod with Steve Donatell -- son of NFL big brain and lifetime inhaler of anything "football".

Again, I am going to march right down this roster and give you one after another big time Wake prospect getting ready to emerge. It doesn't make a Good GD what I say...I can't hinder or harm any of these guys -- these guys apparent to you regardless of any of my babblings.
 
Lectro said:
Absolutely...there is nothing to be done about outside circumstances when evaluating players -- injuries and attitudes and doing some stupid college shit comes with the territory.

I thought James Adams was the better of the two Durham products (Gattis and the DB for ncsu). But, just when James was scheduled to take off (Rs Soph was 6'3 and 230 - entered at 190) against Clemson. Alas, he suffered a savage knee injury.

Heartsill, like Brody Overstreet before him...was an ALL ACC type talent that will not be realized. That's why it's called potential. Eric Berry was absolutely the most gifted of the trio ( Arnoux and Curry) -- that son of a gun was 6'3 and 255 and just knew where the play was going. You don't fucking average 22 tackles a game in Tidewater Virginia. That guy was a machine. Alas...talent down the tube. Jules Tucker almost went down the drain when he contemplated a transfer to Hampton before his JR season.
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What does that have to do with it being harder to find under the radar players in the YouTube era?
 
Back on track :

Kevis Jones -- entered WF as an All Purpose product - which, again--hurts the individual position grading when it comes to the star givers. See: Alphonso Smith as most prominent example of position rankings.

Anyway, Kevis came to Wake after having been a 6'2-195 pound all purpose guy -- WR / S / LB / RB / KR

Today he 6'2 and 230 pounds plus and possesses a 40" vertical and legit 4.5 legs. Long armed, great build, smart and a very enthusiastic player. Kevis loves some football. He is a junkie and is the other pea in the pod with Steve Donatell -- son of NFL big brain and lifetime inhaler of anything "football".

Again, I am going to march right down this roster and give you one after another big time Wake prospect getting ready to emerge. It doesn't make a Good GD what I say...I can't hinder or harm any of these guys -- these guys apparent to you regardless of any of my babblings.
 
Lectro said:
Yes it had been. I consider the last 2 classes as having broken free from being (HS) program centric. We have taken on guys who have run other guys out of school.

I do not like to negatively call out players ... my comments over the years were very limited when it came to guys like Hunter Haynes, Matt Woodlief, Riley Haynes, Scott Betros, etc.,

Today, I can hardly contain my enthisiasm over guys like JT Jackson and Lance Virgile...I mean, these are big time athletes and we have a ton of them at LB - the competitive pressure of those numbers will produce some diamonds.

I am not having to "reach" this year. A lot less "hope" in my voice and a lot more swagger.
Click to expand...

Lectro said:
Justin Jackson is 6'1 - 231 OLB / 4.49 40 yards / 385-400 BP/ focused. Stud.

Zachary "Ziggy" Allen -- 6'2.5 and 242 pounds - has won start job /4.55 40 yards/Sky "Po"

Joey Ehrman -- 6'4-225 -- RS SR. with big plays in his career / 4.55 40/5th year leader

Brandon Chubb -- 5'11.5 and 241 pounds / 4.65 -- long bodied kid plays 6'2-- nose for ball. RS Frosh hard to keep sidelined

Riley Haynes -- slimmed down from 235 to 222 on 6'1 frame. Instincts,brains combined with 4.68 40 speed -- 5th year*

Scott Betros -- big frame kid at 6'1.5 and 244 -- great reads/navigates/ex-Florida #33 overall has skills -- 5th year*

Mike Olson - 6'3-245 - powerful,athletic, has some freakishness to go along with true LB intensity.Star

Teddy Matthews 6'3-225 -- wave of future -100 plus tackles as SR/ Floridian is upper tier ATH

Kevis Jones 6'2 - 220 -- jack of all...like Sherman Ragland/ high school do-everything guy /4.5 speed-legit


This ain't RJ's "grand-mammas" Cadillac

These mofuggies are big,bad and arrive with foul breath. Look for some serious "reel" from this group. Hard hitting and action packed footage,bitches!
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Lectro said:
Hazime was coming on as a Sophomore then hurt his knee...as with most recoveries his JR season was one of readjustment. It typically takes 18 months for the athlete to physically and psychologically recover. Looking for real contribution from this guy - 6'4-278 Sr/ experience...let's hope he picks up where he left off pre-injury.

As for the 4 I mentioned there is no "holding on" -- Olson and Jackson will wind up being as good as Curry-Arnoux...the bonus is that the present team has another budding star in Zachary Allen and 2 more potential studs in Chubb and Hunt. For 2012 you also have the luxury of Sr.'s Betros, Haynes and Ehrmann...that's a lot of "real" heated competition for spots. Jim may complain about "depth" but he has a ton more than previous squads.

Whitlock is rated by Steele as the #8 DT in the land...he will continue to defy the odds as he moves further up that list. He IS the Heart and Soul of this team and he is the perfect representative of the smallest school in major college football.

Merril is everything Phonz was...hopefully Phonz is in his ear about his own struggles as a sophomore. Merril simply needs to play within the scheme and he will continue to impress.
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jacktatum said:
All the backers are doing great this year. I am proud of Betros and Haynes. They have grown so much. I think that the competition at the inside linebacker position is making our defense better.
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Lectro said:
This.
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Lectro said:
I believe that this what the hopeful Deac looks for. You come to rely on guys playing their best football as Jr's and Sr's --as we all know, this is just how the program is set up... you begin to expect solid play from a Betros, or Booi, Haynes,Davis,Okoro,Givens,Jackson,Williams,Ellis -- overall our weakest class by far yet we still need some SR's to emerge from this group for 2012. Betros, Williams,Davis and Haynes seem to be embracing it and Givens and Jackson are excelling but we must have more from this paltry class.
Click to expand...

Lectro said:
So you are liking some Duran Lowe, Merrill Noel and Mike Olson and friends from the New and Improved "Fresh Deac" Era?

Mack,Betros,Haynes,Whitlock,Redding,Thompson,Marshall,Cooper...
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Lectro said:
For various reasons each of these kids has been slowed a little at the start of this season.

Scott Betros is a big bodied LB and a gritty tackler...he is fighting tooth and nail to keep Olson out of the game. Scott produced about 30 tackles last year in his first healthy season (Shoulder). Olson produced 40 plus with more disruptive stats in about 40% of the time. Scott worked exceptionally hard this offseason and it shows (remember, Betros was a Florida Top 50 player) and Mike is now prying some of that time loose.

Justin has been 'eased' into 2011. Time for the gloves to come off as he sees his league peer this weekend in Kevin Pierre-Louis.

Ziggy -- late night mishap...avoided disaster. Getting back up to snuff now...the 2 week break has been a blessing.

Daniel -- shoulder sprain -- back to speed against BC.

Duran has been playing and has also been the top special teams guy I've seen on kickoffs. He is so athletic, I mean he consistently forced T.J. Graham into tacklers and twice took him out with the tackle (before the 25 yard line with our kickoffs against a near world class sprinter!) Duran also did a beautiful job breaking Tobias Palmer down in space and wrapping him up.

Time to get these guys healthy and up and running together...
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Lectro said:
Jabba87 said:
I'm very new to these boards, but have been reading them everyday for the past year or two (good time at work). I love Lectro's posts; you know your football. I sit back, watch, analyze, think about what Wake needs, and despite your vitriolic and insulting language, I for one think you know your shit. If I make it down to a Wake game you're someone I'd love to have a beer with. When I went to the Orange Bowl in 06 it was awesome catching up with about 30 of my fraternity buddies who I hadn't seen. One thing is true, coming from me a 20+ year grad, is Wake forms a very special bond.

I also watche my 06 Orange Bowl dvd again the other night, and what I see then vs. now is a defense with an attitude. I think attitude starts with linebackers (Abbate, Curry, Arnoux), and I just don't see any , and I mean any, "hits" from our linebackers.

It's always true that when your safeties lead you in tackles, your front and middle are weak.

You make some excellent points about the hitters -- we have a crew of Safeties (some more built for 'Bandit' type position) and then our young speedy linebackers have to step to the forefront (Olson,Jackson,Allen). Betros is playing good ball and he has all facets of the game. Riley has played inspired but he is still missing tackles in space.

As a side, ol' Lec will try and tone down the "vitriolic and insulting language"...I will say that I learned early the pitfalls of a "positive spin" on a message board...most folks mistake kindness for weakness and without any physical presence they will attack until the carcass is eaten. The web is Darwinian and an 'advanced criticality' is at once the preserve of analysis and the hallmark of a dying animal.
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I left out a few but you get the point. Lectro, I hope you're right and not hyping for hype's sake.
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CheesePritchard said:
Lectro thinks everybody will be awesome. You think everybody will suck. The odds are going to be in your favor every time for Wake football, Ph.
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lol this needs to be tacked on to the top of every page if this discussion keeps going.
 
PhDeac said:
What does that have to do with it being harder to find under the radar players in the YouTube era?
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I don't believe your premise -- google Julian Thomas Jackson --his brother was highly recruited at Mississippi. Julian had seen the process and quickly chose his school as opposed to the school choosing him. Big problem for him was the fact that each school he considered committing to underwent HC turnover. By the time he could open it back up many schools had already filled...

That's what you are failing to recognize, IMO. The counter weight of early commitments snaps up a majority of ships available to be given. You've got the big schools filling out classes after camps.

Today you have guys going through a full Sr. season and yet they are out in the cold when it comes to the bigger programs...Duke Ejiofor and Ali Lamot are perfect examples. Plainly put...these two human beings did not mature like other human beings. I mean for crying out loud -- look at the differences in the two guys from Jr to end of Sr seasons -- Ejiofor was a camp measured 6'1 and 1/2 and 187 and ran a 4.82 as a S prospect -- flash forward to the same Houston Camp 16 months later - 6'3 5/8 and 225 pounds -- 39 inch vertical jump and 4.53 camp record at his position (DE) as well as his shuttle time. Add this to his Sr highlight reel where he is every bit the physical presence as Torrodney (Southern Cal consensus AA) was on the opposite side.
 
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PhDeac said:
Lectro said:
I left out a few but you get the point. Lectro, I hope you're right and not hyping for hype's sake.
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I did like what Scott Betros was doing as a Sr. -- of that list I felt he had the most God given ability. He had natural instincts and he had been rated the 32nd best in Florida.

* His shoulders...in the end. The 2012 Virginia game begins with Betros darting through the gap and taking Kevin Parks down for a 6 yard loss. It was the last play Scott would play that day. I watched it, watched him hold his shoulder going off --I remember muttering something like "dam, death by a thousand nicks" --whether it was Whitlocks ankle, targeted at UNC, or Z Thompson's jabbed and nasty looking eye, to Sherman's mangled digit that always makes catching the ball a dream when you are wearing a fuggin sub artic mitt -- and of course, when he made his plays against UNC, he had to mash his hurt hand into the turf both times. It did not look good on film -- he didn't complain...he just he just came off the field and never looked as good in 2012. I look forward to a 2 handed Shermanator and mild knot-headedness is something to be overcome at Wake. A lot of guys have made it through it a rough spot. Sherman will too...might cause him to get a chip on his shoulder. That's not a bad thing. Tory Holt was once known as "hands of stone" by the NCSU "faithful"...
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Ali Lamot committed in June before his senior year.

Duke Ejiofor has a Twitter account and links to several senior year clips of him. According to Scout he had 5 offers.

Julian Thomas Jackson has a bunch of clips online and aside from us, pretty poor offers.

Either way, they aren't evidence of anything because we haven't seen them produce on the field yet.
 
Next up, RS Freshman Steve Donatell.

How the fuck did we get so lucky. I have had an extensive chance to scout Donatell and I'm kind of blown that Wake landed this guy. I know he was Colorado Top 10 and All State hoops ... I knew that Colorado and Nebraska had offered him as a Dual threat QB but I was not prepared to see an athlete of his caliber. I knew about his big name dad and his life around football but I did not quite grasp how good a prospect he'd translate as. You could say that I missed him on signing day. That's an understatement.

One of the concerns you have with a guy like Donatell is "will he add mass, can he bulk up sufficiently?" With Donatell you might have wondered if he'd end up like Ehrmann...unable to really get big.

If you want to watch this guy move around in space, drop into coverage or rush the passer then google the spring game 2013. I know, I hear all of your shit about the offense...just watch # 46 and see how dam big, fluid and fast this young guy is.

Steve is now 6 foot 6 and 230 pounds. He cleared 54" in the mat jump competition where Justin Jackson maxed at 57" (albeit with some ease ). He translates as a guy with a 40" vertical who can scoot 40 yards at around 4.55.
 
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