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Golf Rules Question

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EagleDeac

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In a club tournament, a player was repairing a ball mark or some imperfection in the fairway that was right next to his ball - to the right of it- before playing his shot. By right next to it, I mean he literally had to be very careful not to move his ball while making the repair. Is that ok or a penalty?
 
I believe this should be a penalty. Cannot repair any ball marks until your ball has reached the green. He could have done this AFTER he played his shot obviously, but beforehand it would be illegal. Can be a real pain when on the fringe. However, if his ball was embedded in the fairway, then that is a different story.
 
I'm going to answer without researching, so take it for what its worth:

I believe this would technically be improving your lie even if the ball doesn't move. It would similar to using your weight to shape the ground behind the ball or taking your stance in a way to manipulate branches, etc.
 
And here's your ruling in red (for what you described, the spot he repaired would be considered in 'the area of'):

13-2. Improving Lie, Area Of Intended Stance Or Swing, Or Line Of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved:

  • the position or lie of his ball,
  • the area of his intended Stance or swing,
  • his Line Of Play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the Hole, or
  • the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:

  • pressing a club on the ground,
  • moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable Obstructions and objects defining Out Of Bounds),
  • creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
  • removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
  • removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:



PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:

Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
 
Even given what vt posted I don't believe it is a penalty unless in the course of his shot the area he repaired was close enough to affect his shot. "Area" is not clearly defined but I think the spirit of the rule is if you repair something near your ball to create an advantage that would be a penalty. If you are simply taking care of the grounds I don't think the penalty would apply.
 
No brainer, absolutely a penalty. You can't repair anything near your ball, end of story. The fact that it was so close that he had to be careful not to move the ball makes it a lock. The club is wider than the ball. Any part of the ground the club might possibly interact with is off limits. As is anywhere you might stand.

Can't remember who it was, but a few years ago a PGA Tour player was thinking about a shot and absentmindedly tapped down a divot at least a foot away from his ball. Took a penalty, there wasn't even a discussion about it.

Etiquette wise, before you hit your ball, you don't screw with anything except loose impediments around it. In a real tournament, anyone repairing anything before they've played would be highly suspect.
 
In my 15+ years of playing golf I cannot recall once fixing anything around my ball in the fairway at all. What the heck was the guy trying to accomplish if not attempting to improve the lie of his golf ball?
 
Penalty, rule shown, end of discussion--- repair area after your shot. otherwise play it as it lays.
 
Here's the full story. In my 20 years of playing at the club I belong to, I've never come close to calling a penalty on an opponent in a tournament - and I've participated in many tournaments each year. In fact, quite the opposite, if I saw something unintentional like a partner touching the putting line instead of hovering the club above it, I would wait until after the hole was over and explain it to the opponent so they'd know not to do it in the future.

In the case of the rule discussion above, I was playing in the Finals of a Member - Member event and our opponent did what was described above. To be honest, I've never seen something that blatant before and I felt it was something that created an advantage, so I mentioned it to the pro who was monitoring our match and he asked the player. They decided it wasn't a penalty - the pro said it wasn't in his through line. I was almost certain it was a penalty, but just let it go without comment. We ended up winning that hole, so it had no effect.

The opponent however was completely pissed at me and still is and said he thought it was customary to fix things like that. I didn't argue his point despite rarely if ever seeing anyone fix anything in a fairway except for filling an unfilled divot - and certainly never seeing anyone fix anything close to their ball. Just wanted to see what people on hear thought about the situation.

We ended up losing the match in extra holes (21) in large part due to a 1 1/2 foot putt that I missed (choked) on 17. Played well overall, but it'll be a long time before I get over that putt.
 
Tell the dude not to be a douche and get over it. They won. You were trying to keep it real.
 
EagleDeac said:
Here's the full story. In my 20 years of playing at the club I belong to, I've never come close to calling a penalty on an opponent in a tournament - and I've participated in many tournaments each year. In fact, quite the opposite, if I saw something unintentional like a partner touching the putting line instead of hovering the club above it, I would wait until after the hole was over and explain it to the opponent so they'd know not to do it in the future.

In the case of the rule discussion above, I was playing in the Finals of a Member - Member event and our opponent did what was described above. To be honest, I've never seen something that blatant before and I felt it was something that created an advantage, so I mentioned it to the pro who was monitoring our match and he asked the player. They decided it wasn't a penalty - the pro said it wasn't in his through line. I was almost certain it was a penalty, but just let it go without comment. We ended up winning that hole, so it had no effect.

The opponent however was completely pissed at me and still is and said he thought it was customary to fix things like that. I didn't argue his point despite rarely if ever seeing anyone fix anything in a fairway except for filling an unfilled divot - and certainly never seeing anyone fix anything close to their ball. Just wanted to see what people on hear thought about the situation.

We ended up losing the match in extra holes (21) in large part due to a 1 1/2 foot putt that I missed (choked) on 17. Played well overall, but it'll be a long time before I get over that putt.
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In member member and member guests you see violations constantly. IMO they are usually the result of players not knowing basic rules, so whatever. I have never called one on anybody but a couple of times I have mentioned it after the match because I thought the guy just didn't know better. In both cases the violations were obvious and pretty serious--picking up leaves in a bunker and grounding a club in a lateral hazard. In both cases, my post-round "suggestions" were taken poorly--confirming to me the player knew exactly what he was doing. So I stopped even mentioning it. I'm not going to call it so I leave it alone. Just not worth the headache. You do learn something about fellow members though.
 
simosfrostyone said:
In member member and member guests you see violations constantly. IMO they are usually the result of players not knowing basic rules, so whatever.
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Yeah, but you'd think someone in the finals of a member-member would know one of the more basic rules of the game. This isn't some strange/tricky situation where you need to go to your rule book. This is basic 101 type stuff.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
In my 15+ years of playing golf I cannot recall once fixing anything around my ball in the fairway at all. What the heck was the guy trying to accomplish if not attempting to improve the lie of his golf ball?
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This.

We have a hard enough time with most golfers not repairing their marks on the green, and apparently there are good samaritans out there who choose to do so in the fairway? No way.

As far as cheating in member-guest/member-member tournaments goes, this guy will now carry the scarlet letter C for the rest of his time as a member at your club. Even the hint of such a thing never leaves you.
 
If there was a pro monitoring your match and he said that was no big deal, he either didn't understand what happened, doesn't give a shit about your match and the rules of golf, or is the type of pro who doesn't know the rules and has never played competitively at any level.

That's not a close call or obscure rule. I'd put it right up there with tapping down spike marks on a green or grounding your club in a hazard.
 
DC,
Actually, the pro might be more concerned with his job, especially if the member was in the governing structure of the club, our current pro was forced out at his previous job because he tried to enforce rules and made the wrong people mad.
 
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