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Natural rights

ChrisL68

Riley Skinner
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What is your take on the fact that human beings by their nature have inalienable rights?

I know this is the philosophy that the Constitution protects these self-evident inalienable rights.

I certainly agree with the enlightened position of the Constitution, but in my mind, the Constitution does provide these rights, and man without society pretty much lives by the law of the jungle.

Thoughts.
 
What is your take on the fact that human beings by their nature have inalienable rights?

I know this is the philosophy that the Constitution protects these self-evident inalienable rights.

I certainly agree with the enlightened position of the Constitution, but in my mind, the Constitution does provide these rights, and man without society pretty much lives by the law of the jungle.

Thoughts.

There are natural rights that are Pre-Constitutional. That was the philosophy of the Founders, and it comports with an academic (cf. political) reading of the text. The existence of those rights was one of the counterarguments to forming the Bill of Rights (ppl didn't want any such list to be seen as an exhaustive list of natural rights).
 
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I get that. I just think the philosophy is flawed, although the end result wouldn't be any different.
 
What is your take on the fact that human beings by their nature have inalienable rights?

I know this is the philosophy that the Constitution protects these self-evident inalienable rights.

I certainly agree with the enlightened position of the Constitution, but in my mind, the Constitution does provide these rights, and man without society pretty much lives by the law of the jungle.

Thoughts.

Do you mean "unalienable", which is stated in the Declaration of Independence, or "inalienable".
 
Who is the foremost Human Rights Activist in the History

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Do you mean "unalienable", which is stated in the Declaration of Independence, or "inalienable".

Interesting point. Never really put alot of thought into the distinction. I should have said unalienable.
 
There are no unalienable rights in this world.


I think I understand the sentiment, however.
 
There are no unalienable rights in this world.


I think I understand the sentiment, however.

If by "natural rights" you mean unalienable, then I agree that those are rights the Constitution was established to protect, not provide. We did not need the Constitution to provide us with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those rights are ours by nature of our existence. No one has to grant us those rights, although the nature of man is such that governments are necessary to protect those rights.

I always cringe when I hear people refer to things like healthcare as a right. Aspects of healthcare have to be provided by someone else. To say that healthcare is an unalienable right is to say that a doctor has no choice but to sacrifice a portion of his freedom in order to provide us with care. That cannot be the case.

I agree with Conner, though. The very fact that governments are necessary indicates that those rights are not truly unalienable, at least not in the strict definition of the word. They can certainly be taken from us.
 
These words are not gospel handed down from God. They're just a convenient framework for the establishment of the government the founders preferred.

We need an expanded statement of natural rights that includes health care, a job with dignity, and a comfortable retirement.

If rich people do not want to help fund these natural rights, they should have their wealth stripped forcibly.
 
These words are not gospel handed down from God. They're just a convenient framework for the establishment of the government the founders preferred.

We need an expanded statement of natural rights that includes health care, a job with dignity, and a comfortable retirement.

If rich people do not want to help fund these natural rights, they should have their wealth stripped forcibly.

There is no way those things are natural rights. Congress could foolishly decide to make them legal rights, but they can never be considered natural rights. The very fact that, as you state, rich people would have to help fund these rights means that they aren't natural.
 
What is your take on the fact that human beings by their nature have inalienable rights?

I know this is the philosophy that the Constitution protects these self-evident inalienable rights.

I certainly agree with the enlightened position of the Constitution, but in my mind, the Constitution does provide these rights, and man without society pretty much lives by the law of the jungle.

Thoughts.


It depends on whom or what you believe.

If you accept the theory of Hobbes you have only one absolute right, the right to life. The ruling authority may, for its own purposes, however, decide to restrain itself and recognize, or grant, other rights.

If you accept the idea of natural law, then it would probably follow that people have natural rights, although there is no clear consensus on what these might be.

If you are of a religious bent and believe that God created us, then it would certainly make sense that he also granted us some rights. But again it is not entirely clear to everybody what exactly these might be in their entirety.

If you want to go with Rousseau, he would probably say that you have the right to freedom - because you were born free and you cannot willingly alienate your freedom - and any other right that the complete consensus of the community might confer upon everyone.

And, although this is hardly meant to be an exhaustive list, but here is one more especially for you dv7, if you asked Machiavelli, he would probably say that the more virtú you have, the less fortuna can have her way with you, and the more rights you can carve out for yourself.
 
These words are not gospel handed down from God. They're just a convenient framework for the establishment of the government the founders preferred.

We need an expanded statement of natural rights that includes health care, a job with dignity, and a comfortable retirement.

If rich people do not want to help fund these natural rights, they should have their wealth stripped forcibly.

Interesting. So these "natural" rights are so natural that they were not even practically contemplated until the last 150 or so years of of humanity's ~200,000 years in its modern form?
 
Are you saying that you want to reverse 200,000 years of evolution? That seems to be what today's conservatives want.

Interesting. So these "natural" rights are so natural that they were not even practically contemplated until the last 150 or so years of of humanity's ~200,000 years in its modern form?
 
These words are not gospel handed down from God. They're just a convenient framework for the establishment of the government the founders preferred.

We need an expanded statement of natural rights that includes health care, a job with dignity, and a comfortable retirement.

If rich people do not want to help fund these natural rights, they should have their wealth stripped forcibly.

Sarcasm detector alert! Alert! Alert!
 
Are you saying that you want to reverse 200,000 years of evolution? That seems to be what today's conservatives want.

I don't think so ... I think evolution has already weeded out socialism. But it is difficult to call something a "natural" right when it is something completely unheard of until relatively recently. It is like saying I have a natural right to a cell phone.
 
If a cell phone is required to level the playing field for access to employment, health care, and education, I fully support giving one to anyone in need.

I don't think so ... I think evolution has already weeded out socialism. But it is difficult to call something a "natural" right when it is something completely unheard of until relatively recently. It is like saying I have a natural right to a cell phone.
 
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