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the big east struggles worry me

showbzz

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why are they all losing? seems to be (and barkley's hysterical halftime critiques in front of pitino) the teams (notre dame, pitt, etc) are short on athletes/nba talents, long on teamwork with great gym rattitudes?

talent is what it takes to win. and we are taking the teamwork approach. a fine idea, but i ultimately just want to make a final four. it will be like the orange bowl happening again. i know showbzzness can never bring us to a final four, but i worry that nothing short of a supremely gifted coach like brad stevens can overcome talent with great role players with gym rattitudes.

this is strange--but it keeps popping in my head. when we beat marist, in the post game presser the marist coach talked about how we "acc'd them"...just out-talented the weaker marist team. when he was at memphis w/ calipari, they called it "nba-ing" the other team...when they played like crap but just overpowered weaker teams with superior talent. i fear that we are shooting for mediocrity/respectability.
 
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Who would have known that Charles Barkley, of all people, would affect the CBB mindset like this with a single comment?
 
How does VCU, BYU, Butler, Richmond etc.. fit into that theory though?
 
It is my opinion that [Redacted]'s vision for the program will result in mediocrity. We may not be truly awful, but we sure as hell aren't going to be battling with Duke and UNC for conference superiority.
 
I think the idea of putting a good system coach in place at Wake is the correct one.

Multiple early NBA defections ravage a program like ours. It would be different if we could hang on to them longer or if we could reload every year but we're too young when we've got them to achieve the big goals of the program and losing them leaves us in the ACC basement for at least a couple of years.

Ideally we would bring in three recruits or so per year in the three to four star range. Play solid defense like VCU, rebound and have a solid half court offense with lots of motion to rely on. Do that you'll have a stable program with the potential to make much deeper runs in the tournaments than we have in a long time.

Hopefully Bz can at least lay a solid foundation for that.
 
Charles Barkley. Man of wisdom.

It's painful watching him on CBS. He's too subdued, and clearly bored by Gumbel and Greg Anthony.

I want TNT Barkley commenting! Say something provocative and drunk, Charles, it's why you're there
 
It's painful watching him on CBS. He's too subdued, and clearly bored by Gumbel and Greg Anthony.

I want TNT Barkley commenting! Say something provocative and drunk, Charles, it's why you're there

He seems to enjoy arguing with Pitino though.


MORE PITINO-BARKLEY FIGHTS. The people want it, CBS. Make it happen.
 
How does VCU, BYU, Butler, Richmond etc.. fit into that theory though?

Mike and whoever was filling in for Mike (Doug Gottlieb I think) were talking about this during their show today. Their reasoning was that even these teams had NBA players. Jimmer, Mack, some kid on Richmond, etc versus Big East teams that didn't save Uconn and Kimba.

edited to add: I'm sure there are more NBA players in the Big East but the above is the summary of what they said.
 
Seems like there is always a wide variety in the number of conferences that the Sweet 16 teams hail from. Perhaps it is as simple as the smaller conference teams are more used to winning and have more current momentum than their larger-conference counterparts who beat each other up for two months
 
Seems like there is always a wide variety in the number of conferences that the Sweet 16 teams hail from. Perhaps it is as simple as the smaller conference teams are more used to winning and have more current momentum than their larger-conference counterparts who beat each other up for two months

Never bought into that cliche. When BCS conference teams go on a run people say it is because they are "battle tested" and "know what it takes to beat the best."

When they struggle it is because they got beat up on by the other teams in their conference.

Both just seem far too simplistic to me.

Also, welcome to here! Hope you stick around. Come on you Royals!
 
Never bought into that cliche. When BCS conference teams go on a run people say it is because they are "battle tested" and "know what it takes to beat the best."

When they struggle it is because they got beat up on by the other teams in their conference.

Both just seem far too simplistic to me.

Also, welcome to here! Hope you stick around. Come on you Royals!

Yeah fair enough. Marquette pretty much defines "battle tested," and Florida State fits that too.

Do think there is something to be said for being a "champion" of a above-average conference's regular season or (particularly) tournament though, in spite of the fact that VCU isn't a champion of anything
 
I'd only buy into "being a champion" as a good thing if it is players returning from championship winning teams. In the same season it is tough for the mentality to change since they haven't really done it before.

Hope that made sense.
 
I think you obviously want (and usually need) NBA talent to make it deep into the tourney. There's no doubt that we want that here at Wake Forest. Problem is, we're basically in the cellar right now, and NBA talent's not going to walk through the door at this moment. We need good, heady basketball players at this moment.

In other words, we all want to go from bad to great. But bad to great has steps from bad to mediocre to good to great. It's not going to happen overnight. Gym rats may not be want we want, but they may be what we need to get over the first couple humps. As we get over the hump, better talent starts walking through that door.

I know some of you are going to respond to me saying that "THIS IS ALL [Redacted]'S FAULT!!!" I don't really care, and I'm not fully convinced of that anyway. It's time to swallow the reality of where we are.
 
I meant teams that had already won a championship that season already, like a Butler or Richmond this year. Probably not a perfect explanation but diversity of conferences in the Sweet 16 is a definite reality (this year all six BCS confs, the CAA, the A-10, the Horizon, the Mountain West; last year all six BCS confs, the A-10, the Horizon, the MVC, the Ivy, the WCC).
 
I meant teams that had already won a championship that season already, like a Butler or Richmond this year. Probably not a perfect explanation but diversity of conferences in the Sweet 16 is a definite reality (this year all six BCS confs, the CAA, the A-10, the Horizon, the Mountain West; last year all six BCS confs, the A-10, the Horizon, the MVC, the Ivy, the WCC).

Don't really buy into that. NCAA tourney is a different animal than a mid-major conference tournament.
 
It's way too complex... For some teams, winning a regular season or conference tourney would be a huge confidence builder. For others, losing puts a chip on their shoulder. It's all about the mentality of the teams and the coach in charge.
 
Multiple early NBA defections ravage a program like ours. It would be different if we could hang on to them longer or if we could reload every year but we're too young when we've got them to achieve the big goals of the program and losing them leaves us in the ACC basement for at least a couple of years.

This is the way I've seen it. A team like Wake can't expect to go anywhere when we get great recruiting classes and proceed to lose all the players after two years. It's one thing to land great players, but it's another thing to land great players who are excited about and committed to playing ACC basketball. Deferring a million dollar paycheck to the following year is a tough decision to make, but until we've got players who will choose one more year at Wake over the NBA, relevancy is the best we can hope for.
 
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