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Expectations from (reasonable) fans...

legacyfan

legacyfan

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I refuse to argue with a person who makes up "facts" to make their points.

I expect our football team to win. For the first time in my lifetime I feel like there is an opportunity for our football team to win. We have a coach who is paid well, we have facilities that are adequate - upgraded a great deal since the hire of Grobe to be sure, but that is a long way from excellent. We actually do have a Florida pipeline... set up by Grobe and his staff. We have made inroads in TX... made by Grobe and his staff.

Coach Grobe has brought unprecedented success to Wake. Does he get a pass from time to time because of this? Of course he does! To suggest that Grobe has done all that he can do and that it is time for a change is just plain foolish. Grobe has won an ACC Championship, and been within ONE win three other years - including this one - of returning to the big game. What exactly are we basing our ideas of success on?
 
I am most impressed with our staff's ability to develop players who were lightly regarded in high school...perhaps undersized or finished their careers recovering from injuries.

However, I have become concerned about our ability to recruit players who have enough potential to develop into major factors in the ACC. This is especially true of linemen, both offensive and defensive.
 
mebanedeac said:
However, I have become concerned about our ability to recruit players who have enough potential to develop into major factors in the ACC. This is especially true of linemen, both offensive and defensive.
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That is a reasonable concern to debate. Much like holding onto ineffective staff (ahem: Lobo). I think that when you look at the whole things are so much better than at any other time in our history we can have discussions about these things. (The O line thing is a real issue on our teams since the departure of Calhoun.)
 
With the exception of 06, we've been dreadful at the end of the season. Inability to finish strong is a major area of concern. And that has a lot to do with finishing games. We can blame depth but that is what redshirting is supposed to address.
 
Our best hope at becoming a major contender each year in conference is to return to the option game. It is not my preference; however, the efficient use of cut blocking does not require recruiting huge linemen. When it is run well it dominates the clock and takes pressure off of the defense. Furthermore, if a passing game is mixed in there will be the ability both to keep defenses off balance and to come back from deficits. We have not run the ball consistently since abandoning the cut block as our major weapon.
 
PhDeac said:
With the exception of 06, we've been dreadful at the end of the season. Inability to finish strong is a major area of concern. And that has a lot to do with finishing games. We can blame depth but that is what redshirting is supposed to address.
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Yup, no doubt about that. I am not arguing for the Sainting of coach Grobe. I simply refuse to burn the man in effigy for losing a bowl game. (And I got my back up because someone else on this board made up "facts" to rip into Grobe. If you are going to debate the merits of keeping/ letting go of our best coach ever, at least have the guts to tell the truth and argue the merits.)
 
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legacyfan said:
Yup, no doubt about that. I am not arguing for the Sainting of coach Grobe. I simply refuse to burn the man in effigy for losing a bowl game. (And I got my back up because someone else on this board made up "facts" to rip into Grobe. If you are going to debate the merits of keeping/ letting our best coach ever, at least have the guts to tell the truth and argue the merits.)
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But at what point do you hold him accountable? Fans have brushed off a lot of late season losses. It's pretty clear that 06 is a major outlier in Grobe's tenure yet people come back to that as the reason not to criticize him.
 
Barring any coaching staff changes (which we know won't happen unless an assistant leaves of his own volition), I really believe that the next step is to find some way to recruit more dynamic defensive linemen. We have to do so much to try and cover for our lack of size and strength there that it leaves the rest of the defense hanging on the razor's edge. If we're going to get to the next level--say, averaging 8 wins a season--then it is going to have to start there.
 
PhDeac said:
But at what point do you hold him accountable? Fans have brushed off a lot of late season losses. It's pretty clear that 06 is a major outlier in Grobe's tenure yet people come back to that as the reason not to criticize him.
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With the money he makes I think it is always appropriate to hold coach Grobe accountable... I just think that maybe there is a difference between where most fans percieve the bar to be. You mention a drop off after '06, and that is true. However, the next two years brought a nine win season, and an eight win season... are those not what we - as Wake fans - should be thrilled about? Last year was an outlier in the opposite direction from '06. So what is it that we as fans are hoping for?
 
mebanedeac said:
Our best hope at becoming a major contender each year in conference is to return to the option game. It is not my preference; however, the efficient use of cut blocking does not require recruiting huge linemen. When it is run well it dominates the clock and takes pressure off of the defense. Furthermore, if a passing game is mixed in there will be the ability both to keep defenses off balance and to come back from deficits. We have not run the ball consistently since abandoning the cut block as our major weapon.
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We weren't a condtender this year? A field goal away from playing in the Championship Game is a contender in my book.
 
I reasonably expect the team not to lose five of its last six games next year.
 
legacyfan said:
With the money he makes I think it is always appropriate to hold coach Grobe accountable... I just think that maybe there is a difference between where most fans percieve the bar to be. You mention a drop off after '06, and that is true. However, the next two years brought a nine win season, and an eight win season... are those not what we - as Wake fans - should be thrilled about? Last year was an outlier in the opposite direction from '06. So what is it that we as fans are hoping for?
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So you're saying Grobe should be held accountable but not for any negative things because the bar is set at the positives.

This is the third straight year we've lost 5 of our last 6 games.
 
PhDeac said:
So you're saying Grobe should be held accountable but not for any negative things because the bar is set at the positives.

This is the third straight year we've lost 5 of our last 6 games.
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I believe that this is a talent issue...talent plus depth.
Deeper into the season, teams have seen pretty much all that you have. At this point you have to out perform and not out scheme. We must recruit better; but isn't that always the issue at WF?
 
So it is unreasonable to expect our staff to recruit better? The advantages this staff has had the last few years far exceed what they had when they recruited the FRESH DEACS.
 
PhDeac said:
So it is unreasonable to expect our staff to recruit better? The advantages this staff has had the last few years far exceed what they had when they recruited the FRESH DEACS.
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Not what I am saying. I am saying we must recruit better. That is the major challenge at WF. The Fresh Deacs were truly exceptional. We cannot expect to develop 2 stars into 1st round draft picks each year. We must learn how to recruit 4 star players and then develop them into 1st round picks. I realize the star system is flawed; but we must bring in that kind of talent much more frequently than in the recent past.
 
PhDeac said:
So it is unreasonable to expect our staff to recruit better? The advantages this staff has had the last few years far exceed what they had when they recruited the FRESH DEACS.
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I think most would agree the WFgame recruiting has been better on paper. More guys with very good offer sheets. Those kids need to get on the field and perform next season. The class with JJ, Lowe and co need to lead WF to an 8 win season next year
 
More depth at skilled positions
Improve recruiting/development of both lines
Desperately need bigger/faster linebackers
Improve in-game decisions and adjustments
 
Sometimes you lose to a better team. They are older and more physical up front. Just a fact. You really want to argue? Mississippi State has 8 players considering leaving early for the NFL and Wake has 1.

I'm all for getting assed up over a loss but that team was physical in the trenches and it won the day. My team is dominated by sophomores and displays the hallmarks of a soph led team...namely,"inconsistent". What does inconsistent mean? It means that on half of the plays I say "way to go!" and the other half brings out a "What the fk was that!?"

Bottom line: Mississippi State was the better squad and Wake will be better for having played them.
 
Who is your team? I saw a team with almost a completely senior OL/TE, a senior RB, junior FB, QB in his 23rd start, and several juniors and seniors on D.
 
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