Some of the Deacon fans on this board

,including probably me, have an unfortunate tendency to eat our own young. Tony and Ty get gnawed on a regular basis. Carson gets it a lot, too.

Ty showed significant engagement and improvement in the last several games. He was a difference maker in both. If he hadn't missed that first dunk in the Tech game, he probably wouldn't have missed his last shot either. When he makes a mistake he doubts himself way too much. Defensively, we need him very badly. If he doesn't get down on himself he can get us eight to ten points a night as well. We need to be encouraging the kid.

We seem to treat Carson alternatively as the big we need or a waste of a uniform. He was savaged on this board before the Tech game. He didn't play much in the Tech game, he helped completely shut Tech down at the end game, and everyone thinks he is great. He actually is good, and we need him, at his position. He is not a low post player, although he is willing to try to play it because we need him to do so. Carson was born for the pick and roll, and it wasn't an accident he hit that three-pointer.

No one will mistake Tony's game yesterday for his best game, but he didn't let the mistakes stop him from playing hard. He's very important to us. Tony is fast enough with the ball, Tony lets CJ play his real position, and Tony is a physically strong defender for us at a point guard, more than anyone else we have right now playing point. The offensive mistakes he made getting too deep in the paint are ones that can be fixed, and he will learn from them and correct them.

With only eight or nine scholarship players on this team, the weaknesses are obvious to everyone. We will lose some more games that everyone thinks we should have won, and we might win a few that everyone thinks we should have lost. How 'bout we ease up on these kids? Y'all remind me of that, please, because I'll probably need to be reminded myself.

I agree that we are tough on the guys more often than we should be. I also know that no ACC team should ever lose to Wofford.

I think it's very different for each player you mention and couldn't disagree more.

Tony is who he is. I don't think people think otherwise. With the exception of RJ, I'm not sure anybody thought he was going to be an All-Star. He's going to get (at best) and he's a placeholder (at worse). He gets ragged on, but it's because he's not that good. If he wants to get better, then he can get better.

As I've noted on other threads at length, I agree with you about Carson, but I think we're starting to realize that his role is more of an issue than his actual play. We're really not utilizing him properly or effectively, relative to his skill set and ability now. He's not a traditional post player, in the sense that he can't really give us much with his back to the basket. He's 6'11, but he's still not strong enough and he doesn't really have much in terms of post moves. We looked much better when he was running the pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop in the later 2nd half. I think he can help us in this capacity as soon as our next game. It'll be interesting to see if Bzz and his staff agree. He's soft, but that's just who he is. He was, at the very least, trying yesterday. If he can set good picks, knock down shots, run the floor, box out, and play good D in transition, I'm fine with that...

Ty on the other hand was a consensus top-50 recruit, 5* player who hyped himself as the next Tim Duncan. In addition to not living up to any of this hype, he hasn't helped his case off of the court, and as written elsewhere, shows nothing in terms of awareness on either end of the floor. He still uses his length and athleticism to disrupt shots, but often at the expense of positioning and defensive rotations. He has the same level of offensive awareness, spacing, and skill set as he did during his freshman year. He still can't shoot, yet he insists on floating to the perimeter and hanging out at the foul line instead of posting up. I'm sorry, but that dunk could have been a two-handed flush. No need for showboating in transition when you're hanging out for dear life as a team... If we lose, then that's a few steps below Strickland v. Duke bad. That's not going to cut it from a senior. In the context of his career trajectory and reputation for a mediocre work-ethic, and I don't feel too guilty criticizing Ty and, at this point, I feel comfortable saying that, unlike the aforementioned players, Ty doesn't have youth or potential on his side. It's just sad. I'm sure he's a nice kid, but a good basketball player he is not...

There is a difference between being encouraging and calling it how you see it... Some trolls aside, this board has been getting better at it as of late.

Fair point. Behind all these guys 1000% and look forward to their growth as players. Tough being a collegiate athlete in today's environs. Know that these guys work their butts off as student athletes which can't be easy at a place like Wake. All these guys great reps of WFU.

I am often too hard on our players, most recently Tony Chennault. Having said that, I don't believe that players should be immune from criticism. This is a public forum for Wake fans to communicate with each other, just like we would at a bar, or game, or in a chat room. Yes, much of what I say on this board, I would not say to a players face, but that goes along with the contextual nature of conversation. I would also say things about my grandma, professor, or friend on here that I probably wouldn't say to their face.

People get way too down after a loss and way too high after a win. It's the nature of the internets.

york1313 said:

I agree that we are tough on the guys more often than we should be. I also know that no ACC team should ever lose to Wofford.

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Or Stetson or UNC-W or Presy-freaking-terian...oh well, great win against the Hokies!

Here's a list of school's ACC teams have lost to so far this season:

Wofford, Iona, Boston University, Holy Cross, Mercer, Coastal Carolina, Princeton, and Harvard (twice). They all have wins over ACC teams this season.

It's not realisitic to think that we should never lose to Wofford when our top player on a somewhat talent shy team is out.

deacfreke2 said:

Here's a list of school's ACC teams have lost to so far this season:

Wofford, Iona, Boston University, Holy Cross, Mercer, Coastal Carolina, Princeton, and Harvard (twice). They all have wins over ACC teams this season.

It's not realisitic to think that we should never lose to Wofford when our top player on a somewhat talent shy team is out.

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Depressing list there.

deacfreke2 said:

Here's a list of school's ACC teams have lost to so far this season:

Wofford, Iona, Boston University, Holy Cross, Mercer, Coastal Carolina, Princeton, and Harvard (twice). They all have wins over ACC teams this season.

It's not realisitic to think that we should never lose to Wofford when our top player on a somewhat talent shy team is out.

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It is absolutley realistic to expect to beat Wofford with any player out. I will never justify losing to Wofford as you just did.

york1313 said:

It is absolutley realistic to expect to beat Wofford with any player out. I will never justify losing to Wofford as you just did.

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:werd:

deacfreke2 said:

Here's a list of school's ACC teams have lost to so far this season:

Wofford, Iona, Boston University, Holy Cross, Mercer, Coastal Carolina, Princeton, and Harvard (twice). They all have wins over ACC teams this season.

It's not realisitic to think that we should never lose to Wofford when our top player on a somewhat talent shy team is out.

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Two years ago, that Wofford loss would have been the worst home loss in the history of the Joel. It is a really bad loss, but nothing we can do about it now so just look ahead.

deacfreke2 said:

Here's a list of school's ACC teams have lost to so far this season:

Wofford, Iona, Boston University, Holy Cross, Mercer, Coastal Carolina, Princeton, and Harvard (twice). They all have wins over ACC teams this season.

It's not realisitic to think that we should never lose to Wofford when our top player on a somewhat talent shy team is out.

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In what universe is a loss to Harvard or Iona this year bad? There is still no excuse for that Wofford loss. I'm thrilled post-VT, but Wofford was a significant low. Somehow worse than losing to Sendek by 30.

york1313 said:

It is absolutley realistic to expect to beat Wofford with any player out. I will never justify losing to Wofford as you just did.

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Wofford has guys on scholarship, they practice just as much as ours do, and their coach seems to know what he's doing. Regardless of how many starters graduated, they're coming off two NCAA tourney appearances. Throw in that their guards are pretty decent and hit some big threes.

I don't like losing to Wofford any more than you do, and I'm not justifying losing to them. The fact remains that CJ is playing great, we missed him Monday, and without him we'd probably be about 1-14 at this point, or worse.

Strickland33 said:

In what universe is a loss to Harvard or Iona this year bad? There is still no excuse for that game. I'm thrilled post-VT, but Wofford was a significant low. Somehow worse than losing to Sendek by 30.

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Just in the context that the ACC has a big-time reputation and these schools and the conferences they play in don't. I got that info from a Feinstein article in the Washington Post today regarding the fall of ACC basketball especially among those schools not named Duke or Carolina.

deacfreke2 said:

Just in the context that the ACC has a big-time reputation and these schools and the conferences they play in don't. I got that info from a Feinstein article in the Washington Post today regarding the fall of ACC basketball especially among those schools not named Duke or Carolina.

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That's fair.

ChrisL68 said:

Two years ago, that Wofford loss would have been the worst home loss in the history of the Joel. It is a really bad loss, but nothing we can do about it now so just look ahead.

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I'm not disagreeing with that, just recognizing that our program is depleted right now and is working its way out of a deep hole. Not only are we down in numbers, and some of our highly touted recruits haven't panned out, but we're still a pretty young team. Six of our nine scholarship players are underclassmen, and our Sr. class members aren't the most experienced Srs. you can find.

The last time we lost to Wofford was 1906.

WakeForestRanger said:

The last time we lost to Wofford was 1906.

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Good thing we didn't play them very often, especially in the mid/late '60s and during the Staak years. Truth is, they haven't been D1 very long, spending most of the intervening years at the NAIA level, and not doing much then.

We played them in 1997 and then the last time before that was 1936.

Fun fact: we won 68-51 in 1997 with Tim Duncan and it is the only college game he ever played without a block.