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What's worse?

B

BzzzIn

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Having no talent and losing to a middle of the road ACC team by 36 or being ranked 3rd and having 10 burger boys and get blasted by 30 to a middle of the road ACC team?
 
The first. At least Carolina is on the road. And Florida St might be ACC #3 fwiw.
 
And UNC's coach is Roy Williams, so they at least they know they'll bounce back.
 
Sorry for being on break? That's definitely what swung the game.
 
It was actually the most crowded a game has been all year even without the State fans. By far the most students who have been there all year.
 
Today's loss was not Mr. [Redacted]'s fault. That's all I know.
 
deacvision7 said:
Today's loss was not Mr. [Redacted]'s fault. That's all I know.
Click to expand...

Not saying Bzz is not to blame but there are some other factors that lead to disasterous losses like today.

- Very limited talent
- No fan support
- Absolutely no depth

Bzz was dealt a very tough hand and I don't think he's done a great job, but an ok job given the circumstances and challenge from Wellman to correct the culture.
 
BzzzIn said:
Not saying Bzz is not to blame but there are some other factors that lead to disasterous losses like today.

- Very limited talent
- No fan support
- Absolutely no depth

Bzz was dealt a very tough hand and I don't think he's done a great job, but an ok job given the circumstances and challenge from Wellman to correct the culture.
Click to expand...

While Bzz has not corrected the culture, he has definitely changed the culture.

-22
 
BzzzIn said:
Not saying Bzz is not to blame but there are some other factors that lead to disasterous losses like today.

- Very limited talent
- No fan support
- Absolutely no depth

Bzz was dealt a very tough hand and I don't think he's done a great job, but an ok job given the circumstances and challenge from Wellman to correct the culture.
Click to expand...

This is absolute bullshit! I have been going to Wake games since 1974 and there have been uncountable times where there's been limited talent, limited crowd support (geez, do some history checking on our performances against UNC when we played under Tacy in GSO) and plenty of years with no depth. This is a historically poorly coached team. Good coaches do not coach up offensive sets that show off how bad their "limited" talent is. I don't give a rat's ass how good a guy might be with all-stars, I care how good he can be with scrubs. That's the definition of a good coach, good motivator and good leader.

And the culture stuff - someone do an actual, factual dump of what the hell we "corrected" culturally at WFU and then I'll listen. Until then, I see it as a coach that has had less control over guys that on the surface were kept in check by a previous coach. Nothing more. If I bring in kids on the margin and keep them in line and you fire me and all shit breaks loose, fuck you, you clean up your shit, don't blame me.
 
Today's loss can't be blamed on fan support IMO like I just said. Today's crowd was relatively large.
 
Crowd was good and did decently with the intro.

After Ty's dunk there wasn't much fodder for celebration.
 
BzzzIn said:
Not saying Bzz is not to blame but there are some other factors that lead to disasterous losses like today.

- Very limited talent
- No fan support
- Absolutely no depth

Bzz was dealt a very tough hand and I don't think he's done a great job, but an ok job given the circumstances and challenge from Wellman to correct the culture.
Click to expand...

Blaming "crowd support" for lack of results. What a fucking laugh.

GTFO
 
BzzzIn said:
Not saying Bzz is not to blame but there are some other factors that lead to disasterous losses like today.

- Very limited talent
- No fan support- Absolutely no depth

Bzz was dealt a very tough hand and I don't think he's done a great job, but an ok job given the circumstances and challenge from Wellman to correct the culture.
Click to expand...

One of the easiest ways fans show their displeasure is not going to the games and not buying tickets. I know that it's not fair to the kids and "real" fans show up every game, blah, blah, blah.
 
Adam42R said:
This is absolute bullshit! I have been going to Wake games since 1974 and there have been uncountable times where there's been limited talent, limited crowd support (geez, do some history checking on our performances against UNC when we played under Tacy in GSO) and plenty of years with no depth. This is a historically poorly coached team. Good coaches do not coach up offensive sets that show off how bad their "limited" talent is. I don't give a rat's ass how good a guy might be with all-stars, I care how good he can be with scrubs. That's the definition of a good coach, good motivator and good leader.

And the culture stuff - someone do an actual, factual dump of what the hell we "corrected" culturally at WFU and then I'll listen. Until then, I see it as a coach that has had less control over guys that on the surface were kept in check by a previous coach. Nothing more. If I bring in kids on the margin and keep them in line and you fire me and all shit breaks loose, fuck you, you clean up your shit, don't blame me.
Click to expand...


I believe that a "factual dump" regarding culture is impossible. Back in the 1950's or 1960's, Buckminster Fuller commented that the only way to see a culture is to stand outside of it. Later (around 1980?) Robert Pirsig wrone a book, "Lila" about the difficulty of cultural change.

When trying to change culture, you have to change systems on a "broad front" basis. That is, each piece of the organization has to change at approximately the same pace as the others. Quick fixes (such as Jeff's immediate resignation) do not affect culture. By way of analogy, compare and contrast Eisenhower's post D-Day management of the war in Europe to the enormous mistake of Operation Market Garden.

Once the systems are in place, they have to be populated with people who fit the system. The system is the key, not the individuals.

Personally, I am very pleased with how the cultural change with Wake basketball is proceeding and I am looking forward to watching Jeff coach for a long, long time.
 
You can't honestly say you are "looking forward to watching Jeff coach for a long, long time."

The past two seasons I have convinced myself to go the almost every home game, because I keep thinking "you know, maybe that last game was a fluke or maybe this game will be more amusing to watch," but no. Every single time I go I slowly begin to wish more and more that someone would gouge my eyes out because [Redacted]'s offense is one of the ugliest I have ever seen. He has Carson playing the perimeter, there is barely any slashing or driving to the rim (and it is by and large unsuccessful when they do try that), and all they do is pass it around the three point line then jack up errant jumpers. Each game presents a new reason to fire [Redacted], but alas, he's Wellman's buddy so nothing will change for the foreseeable future.

I am holding out on home games until we get a new coach or until [Redacted] takes his head out of his ass. The only positive I have taken away from Bzz is the apparently talented group we have coming in next year. But then again, what's the point in having good players if the system they work in is total shit?
 
It's funny because when Wake wins, some folks like to claim it's nice to finally see a "well coached" team. Geez. Fire up the photoshop guys....Im interested to see the next pics.
 
Sconnie22 said:
You can't honestly say you are "looking forward to watching Jeff coach for a long, long time."

The past two seasons I have convinced myself to go the almost every home game, because I keep thinking "you know, maybe that last game was a fluke or maybe this game will be more amusing to watch," but no. Every single time I go I slowly begin to wish more and more that someone would gouge my eyes out because [Redacted]'s offense is one of the ugliest I have ever seen. He has Carson playing the perimeter, there is barely any slashing or driving to the rim (and it is by and large unsuccessful when they do try that), and all they do is pass it around the three point line then jack up errant jumpers. Each game presents a new reason to fire [Redacted], but alas, he's Wellman's buddy so nothing will change for the foreseeable future.

I am holding out on home games until we get a new coach or until [Redacted] takes his head out of his ass. The only positive I have taken away from Bzz is the apparently talented group we have coming in next year. But then again, what's the point in having good players if the system they work in is total shit?
Click to expand...

Damn I don't disagree with you. I think the VT game gave us hope and even the second half of the Maryland game. Don't know what to think now.
 
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