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16+ stars vs. Culture

tbpnwe

tbpnwe

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For the record I'm Bzz wait and see. Until Bzz gets his recruits in here, I'm withholding judgement.

Regardless:

JTT = 4 stars > DUI
Tony Woods = 5 stars > assault
Melvin Tabb = 3 stars > theft
Ari Stewart = 4 stars > ?

Then there is the rape incident.

I'm all for winning, but not at the expense of a program and school that claims a standard above the status quo.

I remember when TD could be seen in the alumni magazine with a group of students doing service work.

Losing sucks, this year has been embarrassing, but I'll support an AD who is brave enough to go against the norm and put the quality of a student athlete above winning.

We will return to the dance. We will again be rocking the Joel. Buzz may or may not be the answer.

But WAKE is supposed to be above the win above all else attitude that tolerates poor ethical behavior from its sports programs.
 
Any behavioral psychologist will tell you that it is a shame that ignorance isnt painful.
 
Well obviously Dino should have caught all these red flags: Melvin Tabb had a bit of reputation of being lazy and therefore out of shape (perhaps he just didn't have time due to his involvement with his church's youth group). JTT Terrell played with attitude (although this was lauded by Wake Forest fans). Tony Woods looked kind of mean. Ari Stewart went to a high school that produced a player with an attitude problem.
 
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Bz already had 5 players he re-recruited. He could have stripped offers to JTT and Tabb and he didn't. He recruited 3 players for his first full class. They've totaled one start. Gottfried brought in 3 McD's in his first full class. That's on Bz.
 
BabyDeac75 said:
Any behavioral psychologist will tell you that it is a shame that ignorance isnt painful.
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Ari Stewart did what exactly? Perhaps it's the coach that didn't know how to handle the kids. You think those kids behave that way (outside of Woods) if they have a coach they look up to, are afraid of letting down? You think every UNC, UK, Syracuse recruit comes in without some issues? It's the coach's JOB to turn these kids into responsible men. Our culture during the Skip/Bzz years was fine. it's a pathetic excuse.
 
Even if you hold all of those things against Dino, which I think is a stretch, it doesn't mean Buzz is the only one that could come in and change things and represent the school well. There are lots of coaches with much better credentials that could've been hired to do that.

Also, how does the whole abatemarco thing fit in with your Buzz clean a$ the driven snow theory?
 
All of that stuff happened under Bzzzz.
 
Ari quit on Bz and left. It's kind of weird that most people if they don't like their job or their boss, they quit and go work elsewhere. That's what Ari did.
 
PhDeac said:
Bz already had 5 players he re-recruited. He could have stripped offers to JTT and Tabb and he didn't. He recruited 3 players for his first full class. They've totaled one start. Gottfried brought in 3 McD's in his first full class. That's on Bz.
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7dimes said:
Ari Stewart did what exactly? Perhaps it's the coach that didn't know how to handle the kids. You think those kids behave that way (outside of Woods) if they have a coach they look up to, are afraid of letting down? You think every UNC, UK, Syracuse recruit comes in without some issues? It's the coach's JOB to turn these kids into responsible men. Our culture during the Skip/Bzz years was fine. it's a pathetic excuse.
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^^^ALL THE ABOVE!!!^^^
 
PhDeac said:
Bz already had 5 players he re-recruited. He could have stripped offers to JTT and Tabb and he didn't.
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That would have been remarkably late in the process to do so, correct?

He's (maybe deservedly) getting the same crap for pulling the same thing on Tyler Lewis... who is now one of the Gottfried guys you mention... and Lewis was a full year ahead of those 5 guys in the process...

I feel like unless you have a pretty impeccable reason to do so, pulling a scholarship out from under a kid at that point would be lose-lose regardless.
 
vtwhat etc said:
That would have been remarkably late in the process to do so, correct?

He's (maybe deservedly) getting the same crap for pulling the same thing on Tyler Lewis... who is now one of the Gottfried guys you mention... and Lewis was a full year ahead of those 5 guys in the process...

I feel like unless you have a pretty impeccable reason to do so, pulling a scholarship out from under a kid at that point would be lose-lose regardless.
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I'm assuming Bz would have had whatever pretty impeccable reason Dino apparently ignored when he recruited those uncultured thugs in the first place.
 
7dimes said:
Ari Stewart did what exactly? Perhaps it's the coach that didn't know how to handle the kids. You think those kids behave that way (outside of Woods) if they have a coach they look up to, are afraid of letting down? You think every UNC, UK, Syracuse recruit comes in without some issues? It's the coach's JOB to turn these kids into responsible men. Our culture during the Skip/Bzz years was fine. it's a pathetic excuse.
Click to expand...

I realize that you are new here, but by copying my comment it appears that you are directing your post to me. If so, you clearly didnt understand my initial reference. And dont get into that "culture change" BS. It wont hold water.
 
vtwhat etc said:
Also, to the OP... not familiar with this 'rape' incident.
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Of course, as you realize, there was none. I understand your post, but think it is unfortunate some still attempt to characterize it as such.
 
BabyDeac75 said:
I realize that you are new here, but by copying my comment it appears that you are directing your post to me. If so, you clearly didnt understand my initial reference. And dont get into that "culture change" BS. It wont hold water.
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That was a mistake, apologies.
What part of my culture change comment is BS? It seems pretty apparent the culture change was used as an excuse when our players got into trouble during Bzz's reign. Wellman claimed Dino was fired for poor performance...two years later he and Bzzz claim the culture was terrible. That's BS
 
7dimes said:
That was a mistake, apologies.
What part of my culture change comment is BS? It seems pretty apparent the culture change was used as an excuse when our players got into trouble during Bzz's reign. Wellman claimed Dino was fired for poor performance...two years later he and Bzzz claim the culture was terrible. That's BS
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OK, it appears that we got oars crossed a couple of ways. I meant that the "culture change" excuse itself was BS. I agree with with your statements above.
 
Rumor is that Dino didn't enforce any curfew or set rules and boundaries for the team when they went to the NCAA tourney. Players were out late on the town partying etc. That's how the rape accusations came up with Clark and Teague. The university was approached by the lawyer of the "so called" victim (don't think anything was ever proven) and it freaked out the big hitter alumni. I imagine Wellman was under the gun to make a change and went with a quick fix...and here we are. They used Dino's "performance" as an easy out excuse. I have nothing in black and white but have heard the same type info from different sources that seem to jive. Whether its legit is up to you guys to decide....kinda fits the scenario IMO.

I'm not a Dino fan but I would rather have him right now than Bzz. He was thrown into the position when Skip died unexpectedly. I think he did a pretty decent job all things considered.
 
TheIshThatSaved WakeForest said:
This thread is going to suck.
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dead_thread.jpg
 
Chunkyc said:
Rumor is that Dino didn't enforce any curfew or set rules and boundaries for the team when they went to the NCAA tourney. Players were out late on the town partying etc. That's how the rape accusations came up with Clark and Teague. The university was approached by the lawyer of the "so called" victim (don't think anything was ever proven) and it freaked out the big hitter alumni. I imagine Wellman was under the gun to make a change and went with a quick fix...and here we are. They used Dino's "performance" as an easy out excuse. I have nothing in black and white but have heard the same type info from different sources that seem to jive. Whether its legit is up to you guys to decide....kinda fits the scenario IMO.

I'm not a Dino fan but I would rather have him right now than Bzz. He was thrown into the position when Skip died unexpectedly. I think he did a pretty decent job all things considered.
Click to expand...

This reads like some bizarro combination of actual proven events, random opinions on this (and other) forums, optimistic presentation of information and some zero-source crap and then all put through the chronological-mix-master. Give me a break.
 
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