Joel Purchase?

I think buying the Joel is probably the right move, but I still think 8 or 9 million is overpaying for the Joel. Who else besides Wake would be interested in buying a Coliseum that is a money loser and in need of renovating either now or in the near future in this economy?

In my eyes Wake would have the clear upper hand in any negotiations with the City and if the powers that be decide that purchasing the Joel is in our best interest then they need to take advantage of that and engage in some hardball negotiating...

GreenDeac said:

I think you'd have to knock it down and start over. Not sure it would be a big enough space either.

Also, where would people park?

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Parking was something I hadn't really figured into the equation, but what I had envisioned for the actual gym was gutting was pretty much everything inside and putting in really high-angled seating. I have no idea what the actual dimension, seating capacity, etc. would be, just saying the convenience of the on-campus arena and high-rise seating would make for a daunting arena

Reynolds is much too small to try and renovate even without the parking concerns. A great blueprint IMO would be Reynolds Gym at State. That building is much larger than our Reynolds, but I'd kill for a gym like that at Wake. They lost their entire home court advantage when they moved into the RBC.

As some others have said, we can buy and renovate the Joel into a killer arena for significantly less than building new. I honestly see WFU eventually moving all of the athletics fields/buildings to the new athletics campus and turning the existing buildings into student buildings. I have no evidence of this, but it's my hunch from the actions of the past 10-15 years.

It's hard to see how buying it would be of any benefit unless the long term plan is to secure the land to eventually gut the Joel and build a Wake specific arena there in 15 to 20 years. I can't imagine there are any other buyers out there, plus we have a lease so it's not as if we would be chucked out. The operating costs would likely be prohibitive. There's a reason the city wants to sell it--it's a money loser.

If you look at Wake's real estate acquisitions in that area, it's pretty clear they're going to buy the Joel if given the chance.

Great!! Let's buy the Joel so we can put the pews back in so it looks even more empty!!!!

BeachBumDeac said:

If you look at Wake's real estate acquisitions in that area, it's pretty clear they're going to buy the Joel if given the chance.

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This...the question is will there be renovations and will they sell naming rights to BB&T(while keeping LJ in the name somewhere)?

Wakeforest22890 said:

This...the question is will there be renovations and will they sell naming rights to BB&T(while keeping LJ in the name somewhere)?

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They will definitely eventually renovate it. I don't think it'll be immediate. And selling naming rights may be the only way to fund that renovation.

BeachBumDeac said:

If you look at Wake's real estate acquisitions in that area, it's pretty clear they're going to buy the Joel if given the chance.

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Agreed. Wrt our lease, we are paying something around $1 a year due to our money that was put up for the construction. I seriously doubt out lease agreement will be that favorable if the Joel gets sold to an outside company.

deacinwnc said:

It's hard to see how buying it would be of any benefit unless the long term plan is to secure the land to eventually gut the Joel and build a Wake specific arena there in 15 to 20 years. I can't imagine there are any other buyers out there, plus we have a lease so it's not as if we would be chucked out. The operating costs would likely be prohibitive. There's a reason the city wants to sell it--it's a money loser.

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The land itself has to be worth a couple mil. What could be done with the building, after it's served it's purpose as a sports arena? University owned housing/commercial complex for undergrad/grad/faculty? It's a big stretch, but Erwin Square in Durham is a good example.

FearTheDeaconChin said:

The land itself has to be worth a couple mil. What could be done with the building, after it's served it's purpose as a sports arena? University owned housing/commercial complex for undergrad/grad/faculty? It's a big stretch, but Erwin Square in Durham is a good example.

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um, where would Wake play basketball?

You think we have the money to build another arena from scratch?

IT's not going to outlive its purpose as a sports arena for decades

BeachBumDeac said:

um, where would Wake play basketball?

You think we have the money to build another arena from scratch?

IT's not going to outlive its purpose as a sports arena for decades

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Wake is going to do something to cut their losses if they buy the place and it doesn't seem as if the odd concert and rodeo are enough to make it profitable.

FearTheDeaconChin said:

Wake is going to do something to cut their losses if they buy the place and it doesn't seem as if the odd concert and rodeo are enough to make it profitable.

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Wake isn't buying it to make it profitable. They're buying it to ensure that in the future they have to spend less money building a new arena or reupping the lease with someone other than the city than they would have to spend renovating the Joel.

Operating at a loss is cheaper than building a new arena. Our lease expires in 2015. Y'all are some short sighted mothers.

DeaconCav06 said:

Operating at a loss is cheaper than building a new arena. Our lease expires in 2015. Y'all are some short sighted mothers.

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Of course it is cheaper to play in the Joel now, 50+ million dollars cheaper. This is all just speculation on what could be done with that land and building, once Wake owns it.

FearTheDeaconChin said:

Of course it is cheaper to play in the Joel now, 50+ million dollars cheaper. This is all just speculation on what could be done with that land and building, once Wake owns it.

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If Wake buys the Joel they're not going to knock it down and rebuild another arena somewhere else. There are much cheaper places for them to buy land and build your "housing projects complex" or whatever you're talking about.

If Wake does buy the Joel I could see them starting with some minor renovations like we've seen with the baseball park, while they try and sell the naming rights. Eventually we would hopefully see major renovations and a downsizing of the arena.

Some of you are losing sight of how a lease negotiation on the Joel would take place. Whoever owns the Joel, has to have Wake as a tenant to make the property viable. The lease is what gives any value to the property outside of redevelopment of the land, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. Without Wake as a tenant, it would probably be cheaper for the property owner to shut the thing down and padlock it, rather than trying to have an event every couple of weeks.

There is a lot more revenue to the property owner than simply the lease rate. There are concessions, parking, and some agreement can be made on a percentage of ticket sales as well.

Wake holds a lot of cards here. Ultimately, I think Wake will end up buying the arena because the location makes senses, as BBD pointed out.

I think the only realistic current option for another arena is at the back of the Blue Lot along University Parkway, although we would need to buyup that self-storage and that past-its-prime hotel. This location is about 0.5 miles closer to "campus," makeing it a lot more accessible on foot. That would mean building the new arena while continuting play in the Joel and eventually demolishing the Joel. Still, that's a very long range option (decades).

We also need the W-S economy to take another nosedive so we can buy Old Town CC.

Buy church, play basketball there.

We really need to get the state to give Wake Forest eminent domain powers so we can crush any property owner who stands in our way. Write your NC State Representative on this very important issue.

1. On campus basketball stadium won't ever happen. There's no practical location. Parking would be a nightmare. Plus, look at what's happening down around the joel. Football, baseball, tennis, and basketball are all down there, and Wake continues to buy up land. That area is absolutely the future of Wake athletics.

2. Long-term perspective practically requires Wake to buy the Joel. Eventually it will get remodeled or rebuilt, but that's not really the point. They may take a loss on operating it, but it can't be all bad. They'll still be able to have other events there, plus they'll be able to lease the parking for the fair? Maybe?

3. Maybe I just need to read the article closely, but does this include the annex, etc?