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Retired US Soccer / World Cup Thread (RIP)

tintinisahottie said:
Players often don't try as hard, and often spend the entire time trying to avoid injury during friendlies. Especially friendlies during international break. Especially friendlies a week before Champions League. Friendlies also are often experimental lineups and experimental tactics. In Argentina's case that is definitely true.
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They left off 3 players? I'll argue we lost two of our best to injuries in Davies and Holden
 
WFU03 said:
Well, you haven't made any real points at all yet.

Tim Ream isn't good because he isn't playing in Europe yet isn't really much of a point. You realize that almost all players from the Americas pretty much start their careers in their home regions before they move to Europe, right? Even if they're excellent, can't miss type players.
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But gsterps did make a point simply by saying Tim Ream is good because he has composure. Got it, thanks.

I also said if he was as good as gsterps was saying he was, he would be first choice for us right now. Good job skipping that part in an effort to make my point look ridiculous. (and you tried to say I was doing that earlier, HA) As well as leaving out that Tevez played for Boca and Corinthians, possibly the two most prestigious teams not in Europe. And his 6 years in South America were far more than just about any other good player in South America, and he was there that long partly because he loves the place (look at how he begs to go back every 2 months), and because he's owned by a scumbag. Tevez is very much the exception to the rule.

Also good job ignoring that my original point, and the one I was really focusing on, was that we haven't progressed since the 2002 World Cup. Instead, you focused on Tim Ream, for god knows why.
 
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I'm done arguing. Clearly we are progressing and on our way to the top of the world! Because we are America, and that's what we do.
 
tintinisahottie said:
I'm done arguing. Clearly we are progressing and on our way to the top of the world! Because we are America, and that's what we do.
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Yes that's exactly what we have all been saying. We will be the world power to beat in no time!!!!!
 
tintinisahottie said:
But gsterps did make a point simply by saying Tim Ream is good because he has composure. Got it, thanks.

I also said if he was as good as gsterps was saying he was, he would be first choice for us right now. Good job skipping that part in an effort to make my point look ridiculous. (and you tried to say I was doing that earlier, HA) As well as leaving out that Tevez played for Boca and Corinthians, possibly the two most prestigious teams not in Europe. And his 6 years in South America were far more than just about any other good player in South America, and he was there that long partly because he loves the place (look at how he begs to go back every 2 months), and because he's owned by a scumbag. Tevez is very much the exception to the rule.
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No, gsterps said he thought Ream was good and explained why.

You said no, he isn't good. Not because you personally don't rate him as a player but because:
1. He isn't first choice for the US team yet
2. He doesn't play in Europe

Both of those points ignore gsterps' point and instead focus on secondary factors. Both of those secondary indicators have a significant lag time for indications of quality.

I don't have any strong thoughts on Ream other than he shows some potential, but your arguments are only barely relevant.

I could go down a list for a long time of players that became good but were still playing in the Americas for a year or two after they became good and you know it. I only picked Tevez because he's well known.
 
tintinisahottie said:
Also good job ignoring that my original point, and the one I was really focusing on, was that we haven't progressed since the 2002 World Cup. Instead, you focused on Tim Ream, for god knows why.
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If you would actually make a point and back it up, I wouldn't be able to ignore it. As it is, god knows what your point actually is.
 
tintinisahottie said:
It seems to me like I said that was a good result. Just checked, yes I did say that. Come off it
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Are you arguing that we're regressing, or that our NT is stagnant?

Either way, I'll disagree.

In regard to Ream, he's still pretty young for a defender. He plays in the MLS, obviously not top notch opposition, but I legitimately think he could make the jump abroad (not to an elite league, but he could put up). Dv7 made a good point that he's composed on the ball (which I do love) but his positional sense is sub-par. Agreed, but that is more than coachable and shouldn't be seen as a long term hinderance in his development.

Progression? We have more American players abroad right now than we have had at any point in history. You say the MLS isn't up to snuff in terms of global skill (obviously, I agree), but with a record-breaking number abroad, they're getting exposure that no American contingent has had in the past.

Topped World Cup group? Never done it before. Beaten the No. 1 ranked team in the world? Don't think so (was Brazil in '98? Either way, not between winning a major tournament and then the World Cup). We're drawing Argentina's (albeit in a friendly), beating Spain's and giving Brazil's a run for its money.

We're moving up.
 
WFU03 said:
If you would actually make a point and back it up, I wouldn't be able to ignore it. As it is, god knows what your point actually is.
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That we are stagnant, or at the very least not progressing as much as the likes of SD3 and gsterps say. On pages 31 and 32, I mentioned that we got farther in the World Cup in 2002, had a better defense, same midfield quality (if not better), and a much better attack. I then said I'm concerned that not only are we not producing talents like Neymar or other Brazilian and Argentine phenoms of that ilk (brought about by dv7 comparing Agudelo and Neymar and saying there's no contest in who's better), it seems to me like we aren't even producing guys with as much talent and as dynamic as DMB and Donovan were back in 2002. The only one I could think of since 2002 that were on their level is Dempsey.

I made a point of saying, "at least that I know of" in regards to the type of talent we were producing not equaling Donovan and DMB. Apparently, gsterp's answer to that was Tim Ream and Bobby Convey, producing laughs from me and dv7. He also thought that Aguedelo is equal to Donovan and DMB at that stage in their careers, which I disagree with but that's fair it's his opinion. Anyway, that got the whole conversation sidetracked to


So, my main point was that I don't think we've really progressed from 2002. We have more depth, but we aren't producing better players than we had in 2002 for our starting 11.
 
We produced Charlie Davies and Stuart Holden. Both would be top players on a team without major injury.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
We produced Charlie Davies and Stuart Holden. Both would be top players on a team without major injury.
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Think Reyna is equal to Holden all things considered.

Who knows how Davies would've turned out. I was crazy excited about his future just like you though. Let's go ahead and say that he would've turned out better than McBride (I think he would have). Isn't it disappointing that we haven't progressed to the point where we have another good striker to take his place?


Effing Guisseppe Rossi.

And Jozy! God he's killing me. I think he could be really good but he's just not putting it together. I'm still believing he'll turn the corner though.
 
tintinisahottie said:
That we are stagnant, or at the very least not progressing as much as the likes of SD3 and gsterps say. On pages 31 and 32, I mentioned that we got farther in the World Cup in 2002, had a better defense, same midfield quality (if not better), and a much better attack. I then said I'm concerned that not only are we not producing talents like Neymar or other Brazilian and Argentine phenoms of that ilk (brought about by dv7 comparing Agudelo and Neymar and saying there's no contest in who's better), it seems to me like we aren't even producing guys with as much talent and as dynamic as DMB and Donovan were back in 2002. The only one I could think of since 2002 that were on their level is Dempsey.

I made a point of saying, "at least that I know of" in regards to the type of talent we were producing not equaling Donovan and DMB. Apparently, gsterp's answer to that was Tim Ream and Bobby Convey, producing laughs from me and dv7. He also thought that Aguedelo is equal to Donovan and DMB at that stage in their careers, which I disagree with but that's fair it's his opinion. Anyway, that got the whole conversation sidetracked to


So, my main point was that I don't think we've really progressed from 2002. We have more depth, but we aren't producing better players than we had in 2002 for our starting 11.
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Overall, I agree that we have nobody near Neymar. However, remember that Argentina and Brazil breathe the sport. It still has quite a long way to go here. We don't have as much time and money invested in our youth setup (yet), but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility to think we could produce one in the next 10 years or so.

I do think that the Convey comparison probably isn't a realistic one, but I do think that Ream will grow to be a really solid center back with the right coaching.

And Agudelo is young as shit. He still has a lot to work on, but I think he could grow into a good striker in time. It's hard to say whether he's near the levels that DMB or Donovan were in 2002 at this point in his career. Remember, Donovan was 21 in that 2002 World Cup. Agudelo is only 18 and he's had three caps. Don't pass judgement just yet.
 
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Screamindemon3 said:
Who is their other forward not named Chicharito?
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Vela, Gio dos Santos (though he's more of a go wherever you want on the field type and not a striker). I'd take either over Jozy, honestly. And Agudelo as well.


and of course, you can't just discount Chicharito. Total stud, much as I hate to admit it as I heavily made fun of Man Utd for being too poor to sign someone good when they got him (should've saved that for Bebe. If only i had more patience)
 
tintinisahottie said:
Vela, Gio dos Santos (though he's more of a go wherever you want on the field type and not a striker). I'd take either over Jozy, honestly. And Agudelo as well.


and of course, you can't just discount Chicharito. Total stud, much as I hate to admit it as I heavily made fun of Man Utd for being too poor to sign someone good when they got him (should've saved that for Bebe. If only i had more patience)
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Jozy has more goals and the same amount of caps as vela in their national teams. Gio has more caps and half the goals.
 
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