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Could you ever permanently live abroad?

mmedeac said:
I have a friend in her late 20s who moved to New Zealand this past June to live there permanently with her bf. She writes me that the adjustment had been extremely difficult. Cultural differences have been profound,even in an English-speaking country. She lived on Turkey for three years after grad school, so she is a pretty flexible person.
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Not sure if this sentence has a typo or if your friend has a very strange way of demonstrating her flexible nature.
 
WFU03 said:
I actually think living in an English speaking country might, paradoxically, make living abroad worse. If you're moving to a non-English speaking country, you fully expect to experience a different culture and lifestyle. Whereas if you're moving to an English speaking one, you will likely come into it with some expectations of similarity even if you don't consciously realize it.
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i think this paragraph also captures why it's sometimes so much harder to come back to america from a different culture than it is to actually GO to a different culture in the first place (for temporary situations. i know the permanent nature of this particular question changes things a bit). you prepare yourself mentally for the other country/culture when you leave the US in the first place. but you just assume that when you come back, you'll adjust immediately back since it's the culture you've lived in for the vast majority of your life. at least for me, i've always found that the transition back is VERY difficult (it's probably relevant to note that i was having to adjust back from 3rd world countries where i spent several months at a time).
 
DeacHoops said:
i think this paragraph also captures why it's sometimes so much harder to come back to america from a different culture than it is to actually GO to a different culture in the first place (for temporary situations. i know the permanent nature of this particular question changes things a bit). you prepare yourself mentally for the other country/culture when you leave the US in the first place. but you just assume that when you come back, you'll adjust immediately back since it's the culture you've lived in for the vast majority of your life. at least for me, i've always found that the transition back is VERY difficult (it's probably relevant to note that i was having to adjust back from 3rd world countries where i spent several months at a time).
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REVERSE CULTURE SHOCK!
 
i live abroad now and have for the better part of the last year and a half, but i think it's a tricky situation depending on where you are in your life. for example, i plan to come back to the US after the next phase of my contract, mainly because i feel like i need to settle down somewhere and be grounded for a year or 2. i'd very much like to come back here when i'm more established in my career and life in general. bouncing around a foreign place is fun and exciting, but it wears on you if you find yourself going to the next place for an indeterminable amount of time.

i'm a little bit worried about coming back to the US this time. i've gotten very used to my life and friends here, and i'm afraid i'll be bored or unfulfilled somehow.
 
WFU03 said:
Lots do. For instance, off the top of my head, I know that Norway and Singapore do.
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Only to become a citizen. We're simply talking about living there. You do not have to renounce citizenship to live there. And the US moved to close loopholes on citizens who renounce citizenship to avoid taxes. It's had the effect of making tax avoidance citizenship renunciation only truly advantageous for those in the "extremely wealthy" income block.
 
WFU03 said:
I actually think living in an English speaking country might, paradoxically, make living abroad worse. If you're moving to a non-English speaking country, you fully expect to experience a different culture and lifestyle. Whereas if you're moving to an English speaking one, you will likely come into it with some expectations of similarity even if you don't consciously realize it.

As for what's so different. Well, in western countries a lot of the superficial stuff is the same (tv, movies, celebrities, etc.) but most of the core stuff is different. A country/culture strongly shapes the values that its people have. For instance, norwegians cannot be inside on a nice day. It may sound silly, but it just eats them up. They also inherently trust that the government makes reasonable decisions and, even when they disagree with a decision, they believe that it was probably reached fairly. Those are just two minor examples, but imagine how a conservative from Florida would feel living in a society that reinforces both of these ideas constantly.

I could go on for a while about this, but it's probably already entered tl;dr territory.
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Here comes an unclear/hippy-dippy thought, evidence of the inflated self-importance most college students acquire while studying abroad. I was only abroad for six months, but living with a Chilean family for that time, I felt (or convinced myself that I felt) the difference between the centuries of of American and pre-American history that were buried in my subconscious and the centuries of Chilean and pre-Chilean history buried in their subconscious. I'm sure this was helped by the fact that I was majoring in history and my host-brother was also majoring in history at a Chilean university. But it wasn't just him, and it wasn't any kind of readily describable difference. It just felt like the subconscious motivations and truths that underlay Chileans' daily routines were very different from mine because they were made in a completely different context. I realized that no matter how much I learned about Chilean history and culture, I could never insert myself in that context, which was kind of depressing, as my goal had always been to experience, as much as possible, life as a Chilean. Point is, it made me realize that living abroad would always, forever, no matter what I did, make me a cultural outsider. Even if I preferred some aspects of a foreign culture over my own (as I did), and got accustomed to them (as I did), I would always be an outsider. Since then I've had no desire to live abroad for more than a year, as learning a language and culture can only take me so far.
 
Nope. Reading testimonials from 'flexible' 'open-minded' people having difficulty adjusting just confirms it for me. I'm happy with sampling new cultures for a week-long period, reflecting, and then returning home.
 
freakadeac said:
Nope. Reading testimonials from 'flexible' 'open-minded' people having difficulty adjusting just confirms it for me. I'm happy with sampling new cultures for a week-long period, reflecting, and then returning home.
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you'll never get anywhere close to a full experience to reflect upon in a week. you really do have to live there.
 
Manifest Destiny said:
Where you livin at?
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I live in Vienna, Austria

Maybe I'm very culturally flexible (more likely, I'm sort of culturally independent - I moved around a ton as an Air Force brat and then my mother died while I was a child and I've been a bit of a loner and more independent than most) - but it just hasn't bothered me that much ... and I've lived in some very different cultures during my life (China, Russia and now central Europe).
 
WFU03 said:
I actually think living in an English speaking country might, paradoxically, make living abroad worse. If you're moving to a non-English speaking country, you fully expect to experience a different culture and lifestyle. Whereas if you're moving to an English speaking one, you will likely come into it with some expectations of similarity even if you don't consciously realize it.

As for what's so different. Well, in western countries a lot of the superficial stuff is the same (tv, movies, celebrities, etc.) but most of the core stuff is different. A country/culture strongly shapes the values that its people have. For instance, norwegians cannot be inside on a nice day. It may sound silly, but it just eats them up. They also inherently trust that the government makes reasonable decisions and, even when they disagree with a decision, they believe that it was probably reached fairly. Those are just two minor examples, but imagine how a conservative from Florida would feel living in a society that reinforces both of these ideas constantly.

I could go on for a while about this, but it's probably already entered tl;dr territory.
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Norway's government is pretty MONTE tho. Plus, they dont have repubs so that helps with the reaching decisions fairly part
 
I lived abroad only for a few months and only as a student, so probably not super representative of real life abroad. I really did not dig the weather in England. One of my Wake buddies got transferred over there for BoA 5-6 years ago and loves it. He gets TONS of vaca, and has traveled extensively (and pretty cheaply due to strength of pound).

I think I could defs deal with Italy for a few years. Not forever though.
 
I'd love to live in Spain. Given its economy, perhaps I'll just purchase the entire country. It's worth about a nickel now.
 
siff said:
I'd love to live in Spain. Given its economy, perhaps I'll just purchase the entire country. It's worth about a nickel now.
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I would take up Jai Alai most interesting man in the world style.
 
i don't understand how so many of you just dismiss it. it's so much fun and you learn so much about others, yourself and the country you grew up in. every day is a new challenge. there's just so much out there to experience. i know you guys have totally different perspectives, it's just insane to me.
 
i can only speak for myself, but i don't dismiss living abroad entirely (i've done it). i just dismiss the idea of living abroad permanently. i just don't think i could make a move that would mean that for the rest of my life, i wouldn't live near my family (none of the rest of them would move with me).
 
DeacHoops said:
i can only speak for myself, but i don't dismiss living abroad entirely (i've done it). i just dismiss the idea of living abroad permanently. i just don't think i could make a move that would mean that for the rest of my life, i wouldn't live near my family (none of the rest of them would move with me).
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This is true for me as well. I've lived abroad in more than one place for more than a couple months at a time. It was awesome, I loved the experience and believe everyone should spend some time abroad if they are able. I just couldn't do it permanently.
 
94Deac said:
Only to become a citizen. We're simply talking about living there. You do not have to renounce citizenship to live there. And the US moved to close loopholes on citizens who renounce citizenship to avoid taxes. It's had the effect of making tax avoidance citizenship renunciation only truly advantageous for those in the "extremely wealthy" income block.
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I was under the impression that we were talking about giving up citizenship and, aside from taxes, the biggest reason why people do it is to gain citizenship in a country that forces you to give it up. I don't know many people who would voluntarily renounce American citizenship and become a stateless person.
 
Sorry for confusion- on that point, I was referring only to living somewhere as an expat.
 
yeah i guess i discounted the whole "permanently" thing. i mean hell, i'm coming back to the US eventually. i could definitely see myself moving back to europe though.
 
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