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George Zimmerman

I just disagree with you. I don't see Trayvon as an innocent kid walking through the neighborhood. It is a 15 minute walk home from the convenient store...it is raining. What is Trayvon doing? He left the store at a little after 6. His home is .08 miles away. Why is George making a call at 7:09.

Trayvon was serving a 10 day suspension from school. He had 2 previous suspensions (Vandalism and the stolen jewelry). Like many 17 year old kids he was going down the wrong path...and his decision to be in that neighborhood casing homes was one that contributed to his death.
 
So let's assume he was casing houses. He deserved to be killed?

He was going down the wrong path and he deserved to die?

Lectro, you don't mean this crap. You can't.
 
Lectro said:
I just disagree with you. I don't see Trayvon as an innocent kid walking through the neighborhood. It is a 15 minute walk home from the convenient store...it is raining. What is Trayvon doing? He left the store at a little after 6. His home is .08 miles away. Why is George making a call at 7:09.

Trayvon was serving a 10 day suspension from school. He had 2 previous suspensions (Vandalism and the stolen jewelry). Like many 17 year old kids he was going down the wrong path...and his decision to be in that neighborhood casing homes was one that contributed to his death.
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Even you are right about all of these things, it doesn't justify Zimmer's actions, at least morally, if not legally.
 
No...c'mon. Trayvon didn't deserve to die...who outside of Adolph or Osama have we ever said "deserved to die".

I am merely pointing out that there is very real possibility that Trayvon put himself in a bad spot that night. Indeed, he and George both found themselves in the perfect storm of "bad spots". A place where a wannabe cop ran into a wannabe robber.

I make this assessment based on the information we currently have on both human beings.
 
You sure seemed to suggest he deserved it. And I saw Trayvon as a innocent kid because there's no evidence he committed a crime. No evidence that he had a flathead on him when he was shot. He was a kid walking and talking to his girlfriend on the phone.
 
Lectro said:
No...c'mon. Trayvon didn't deserve to die...who outside of Adolph or Osama have we ever said "deserved to die".

I am merely pointing out that there is very real possibility that Trayvon put himself in a bad spot that night. Indeed, he and George both found themselves in the perfect storm of "bad spots". A place where a wannabe cop ran into a wannabe robber.

I make this assessment based on the information we currently have on both human beings.
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If by bad spot, you mean walking in the neighborhood of a uneducated, moronic, peruvian jewish racist with a gun, then yes, he put himself in a bad spot.
 
Again, all I am inferring - based on Trayvon's record, the record of robberies and description of perpetrators,and the time line from the store on a *rainy night-- is that Trayvon was not about "his business".

George Zimmerman is not a hero. He is also not the gross characterization we were initially fed and if new information clashes with our initial response then we are also obliged to change and adapt. It's only fair and ethical and moral, eh?
 
Why do you care so much about George fucking Zimmerman? I mean, have an opinion, but you are blindly advocating for him here like you have been in the cell talking to him. You haven't. And unless you know Trayvon, stop speculating on his motives. You don't know what they were. While you accuse everyone of being persuaded in their opinions by the media, unless you have spoken with the two participants, so have you.
 
Lectro said:
Again, all I am inferring - based on Trayvon's record, the record of robberies and description of perpetrators,and the time line from the store on a *rainy night-- is that Trayvon was not about "his business".

George Zimmerman is not a hero. He is also not the gross characterization we were initially fed and if new information clashes with our initial response then we are also obliged to change and adapt. It's only fair and ethical and moral, eh?
Click to expand...

I honestly haven't heard anything to change my opinion that he was bill bad ass with a gun and ended up shooting a kid. Color me unimpressed by the Zimmer.
 
What does the record of robberies and description of perpetrators have to do with Trayvon?

And rut ro rorge...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/trayvon-martin-case-witnesses-change-stories_n_1539077.html

Witness 2A young woman who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Trayvon was shot, was interviewed twice by Sanford police and once by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
She told authorities that she had taken out her contact lenses just before the incident. In her first recorded interview with Sanford police four days after the shooting, she told lead Investigator Chris Serino, "I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."
She stepped away from her window, and when she looked again, she "saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."
A week later, she added a detail when talking again to Serino: During the chase, the two figures had been 10 feet apart.
That all changed when she was reinterviewed March 20 by an FDLE agent. That time, she recalled catching a glimpse of just one running figure, she told FDLE Investigator John Batchelor, and she heard the person more than saw him.
"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white. I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses. … I just know I saw a person out there."
​
Witness 12 was interviewed on March 20, saying she "didn't know which one" was on top of the other during the scuffle. Six days later, she said she was sure it was Zimmerman on top, the Sentinel reported.Witness 6 lived close to where the incident occurred. On the night of the shooting, he told investigators that Martin was on top, "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," the paper reported. He also noted that Zimmerman was calling for help. But three weeks later, the witness said he wasn't sure who was calling for help.Witness 13 said he spotted Zimmerman with "blood on the back of his head," he told police. Zimmerman allegedly told the witness that Martin "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him." In two interviews after that one a month later, the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor as nonchalant, "... More like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody' like it was nothing."​
 
One point about the time between 7/11 and the murder. It was raining. Trayvon may have waited for the rain to slow down before walking back.
 
Ok. Sure.

You hitched your wagon to a clear cut case of "Racial Profiling" and a dead ringer for the designation of hate crime.
You got all worked up in a mob mentality.
Then slowly but surely common sense crept into the scene and you realized you were sold of bag of putrid, news- profiling bullshit.
You swallowed hard and stuck to your guns.
 
Lectro said:
Ok. Sure.

You hitched your wagon to a clear cut case of "Racial Profiling" and a dead ringer for the designation of hate crime.
You got all worked up in a mob mentality.
Then slowly but surely common sense crept into the scene and you realized you were sold of bag of putrid, news- profiling bullshit.
You swallowed hard and stuck to your guns.
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I don't care if it was race related or not (but you can bet your bottom dollar if it were a white kid dressed "appropriately" we wouldn't be in this situation). Zimmer is just a dumb ass for getting into that situation.
 
Lectro, I'm not in favor of the hate crime designation. I've explained that several times over the years. Crime is a crime.

And it looks like you're going to stick to your guns even when the evidence is against you. You've hitched your wagon to a murderer. Not sure why. Racer better be packing at that tailgate.
 
So, a bunch of people changed their stories and we have one guy (apparently he has experience shooting people) saying George wasn't acting "right". I am sure glad he recognizes the real reaction to having shot and killed another human being.

Alan Dershowitz has already chimed in...our foremost lawyer says "rut ro, no case here".

But no...we have already invested in making it something it is not...
 
Something it's not?

Guy calls 911. 911 says don't pursue.
Guy pursues.
Guy shoots kid. Kid dies.

What am I missing here?
 
PhDeac said:
What does the record of robberies and description of perpetrators have to do with Trayvon?

And rut ro rorge...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/trayvon-martin-case-witnesses-change-stories_n_1539077.html

Witness 2A young woman who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Trayvon was shot, was interviewed twice by Sanford police and once by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
She told authorities that she had taken out her contact lenses just before the incident. In her first recorded interview with Sanford police four days after the shooting, she told lead Investigator Chris Serino, "I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."
She stepped away from her window, and when she looked again, she "saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."
A week later, she added a detail when talking again to Serino: During the chase, the two figures had been 10 feet apart.
That all changed when she was reinterviewed March 20 by an FDLE agent. That time, she recalled catching a glimpse of just one running figure, she told FDLE Investigator John Batchelor, and she heard the person more than saw him.
"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white. I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses. … I just know I saw a person out there."
​
Witness 12 was interviewed on March 20, saying she "didn't know which one" was on top of the other during the scuffle. Six days later, she said she was sure it was Zimmerman on top, the Sentinel reported.Witness 6 lived close to where the incident occurred. On the night of the shooting, he told investigators that Martin was on top, "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," the paper reported. He also noted that Zimmerman was calling for help. But three weeks later, the witness said he wasn't sure who was calling for help.Witness 13 said he spotted Zimmerman with "blood on the back of his head," he told police. Zimmerman allegedly told the witness that Martin "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him." In two interviews after that one a month later, the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor as nonchalant, "... More like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody' like it was nothing."​
Click to expand...

Why do you say "rut ro"?

Only confirms what we already knew. No definitive eye witnesses with conflicting stories.
 
So you have evidence? Not hearsay?

I am saying we convicted George Zimmerman in a classic rush to judgement. When I heard the story and saw how it was delivered I was enraged like everybody else: "How is this fuggin guy not in jail!?"

So now, I see more and more information coming out and frankly I am dissappointed in myself and mad as hell at Wolf Blitzer (well, his staff anyway...whoever pushed this in front of him with misleading imagery and never uttered epithets.)

I am sorry. It hacks me off to get worked up over something I now feel was largely manufactured. This story was delivered like a Rorshach test - packaged in the symbolic language and imagery that guarantees, upon my viewing, that I fly into a justified rage.

I am sorry. I don't believe George Zimmerman is a bad person. He made a very bad decision but he does not bear the weight of a nations collective angst and guilt concerning race.

Maybe the dumbass deserves to go to jail but he does not bear the responsibilty that collective weight. As his dad said "I feel like I am at the bottom of an avalanche."
 
You remind me of somebody,too. His name escapes me...
 
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