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Chicago teachers are striking

RJKarl said:
Once again DeacMan doesn't know what he's talking about. What's keeping the contract from being signed isn't compensation. It's the teacher evaluation rules that is stopping the contract.
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Nope. The teachers' last known demand was a 25% pay increase over 4 years. No one knows if they'll accept 16% ultimately because no one knows the exact status of negotiations. They rejected 8%. 16% was put on the table. And then they went on strike. Good try though.

25%. Wow. I saw one article that says there are 30,000 strikers in Chi-town. That would be $570,000,000 over 4 years. You could do a lot to help the schools with $570,000,000 over the next four years.
 
PhDeac said:
Are those types of evaluations a truly higher standard?

And can somebody address my point about paying teachers more to teach more? I haven't seen anything to counter that these pay increases are more about paying teachers to teach longer school days and longer school years.
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To your first point: I totally understand this sentiment, and it's something I doubt myself. I realize the serious shortcomings with standardized testing, but I also don't understand why the Chicago Teachers Union can't offer some other alternative for evaluations and hiring/firing. To my mind, principals at schools have to have more autonomy in who they hire/fire. That requires the Union to allow for more non-Union hiring and more Union firing, should principals and district officials decide they can increase the talent of teachers by doing so. Long story short: if you can't use standardized tests, what other (administratively cheap) mechanism can be used? Whatever it is, use it. Just make sure it's actually about teaching talent, not about who is in the union and who is not.

To your second point: I've heard that the pay increases are linked to the increased school days, but I've also heard that Chicago's school days were already among some of the lowest in the nation while its teacher salaries were among the highest. I haven't verified this though; it's just what some daughter of a Chicago suburbs teacher told me.
 
The 16% is NOT why they went on strike.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...eachers-to-strike-after-talks-fail/57720772/1

"Rob Heselton, a teacher at Jones College Prep for 12 years, said the important issues for him are "not as much salary" as class size, extra days and hours added to the school calendar this year and the way Emanuel handled those issues. "It was just the fact that it was forced on us," he said. "I don't want to be out here at all, but it's definitely worth fighting for.""


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nion-on-strike-day-two-deal-is-not-close?lite

"Chicago school board President David Vitale wouldn't comment Tuesday ahead of the continued negotiations, but he insisted Monday night the two sides were close on the two major remaining issues -- teacher evaluations and job security."

Once in a while, READ and try not to be so arrogant. You might actually get something right if you do this.
 
PhDeac said:
Are those types of evaluations a truly higher standard?

And can somebody address my point about paying teachers more to teach more? I haven't seen anything to counter that these pay increases are more about paying teachers to teach longer school days and longer school years.
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I'll counter this all day long.

1 - Chicago kids score well below the national average on all standardized tests. They also score well below the national average of large urban areas on all standardized tests. The CPS are considered among the worst in the country, and long have been so considered.

2 - The school year in Chicago is 170 days long (or was until Emmanuel lengthened it). That was actually below the requirements of IL state law.

3 - The school year is well below the average number of days for the nation.

4 - The school day is shorter than the national average as well.

5 - And for all of this the teachers are the highest paid in the country for an urban district.

So no, they shouldn't be paid more to teach more. They should teach more because that's the norm pretty much everywhere else at lower pay than they already receive in Chicago (and with better results).
 
RJKarl said:
The 16% is NOT why they went on strike.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...eachers-to-strike-after-talks-fail/57720772/1

"Rob Heselton, a teacher at Jones College Prep for 12 years, said the important issues for him are "not as much salary" as class size, extra days and hours added to the school calendar this year and the way Emanuel handled those issues. "It was just the fact that it was forced on us," he said. "I don't want to be out here at all, but it's definitely worth fighting for.""


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nion-on-strike-day-two-deal-is-not-close?lite

"Chicago school board President David Vitale wouldn't comment Tuesday ahead of the continued negotiations, but he insisted Monday night the two sides were close on the two major remaining issues -- teacher evaluations and job security."

Once in a while, READ and try not to be so arrogant. You might actually get something right if you do this.
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I did. This says no agreement yet. Hurray.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...bout-the-chicago-teachers-strike-in-one-post/
 
To extrapolate that's it's about money is inaccurate and incomplete.
 
DeacMan said:
I'll counter this all day long.

1 - Chicago kids score well below the national average on all standardized tests. They also score well below the national average of large urban areas on all standardized tests. The CPS are considered among the worst in the country, and long have been so considered.

2 - The school year in Chicago is 170 days long (or was until Emmanuel lengthened it). That was actually below the requirements of IL state law.

3 - The school year is well below the average number of days for the nation.

4 - The school day is shorter than the national average as well.

5 - And for all of this the teachers are the highest paid in the country for an urban district.

So no, they shouldn't be paid more to teach more. They should teach more because that's the norm pretty much everywhere else at lower pay than they already receive in Chicago (and with better results).
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So you're saying they should just sit back and take a pay cut?
 
Yeah, it isn't about the money. LOL. They rejected an 8% raise. Then they rejected a 16% raise. They might agree to a 16% raise, but if this wasn't about money they would not have rejected any raise. 8% amounts to $165,000,000 over four years. In a district with a billion dollar deficit, that isn't chump change. Wonder what will have to be cut to deliver $165,000,000 over 4 years, never mind $330,000,000 or more over 4 years.
 
WakeandBake said:
yeah, I can't figure out what DeacMan is driving at here
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I think he's saying that teachers for some reason should have less ability than other jobs to negotiate their pay; therefore, they should just do more work for the same pay and be happy about it.

I forgot to add that teachers also want to make sure that they don't have to teach more students for the same pay as well. DeacMan is saying that per hour, per day, per student, teachers should agree to a dramatic pay cut.
 
DeacMan said:
Yeah, it isn't about the money. LOL. They rejected an 8% raise. Then they rejected a 16% raise. They might agree to a 16% raise, but if this wasn't about money they would not have rejected any raise. 8% amounts to $165,000,000 over four years. In a district with a billion dollar deficit, that isn't chump change. Wonder what will have to be cut to deliver $165,000,000 over 4 years, never mind $330,000,000 or more over 4 years.
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Who said it isn't about the money?
 
What am I thinking?

Of course DeacMan knows more than the President of the Chicago School board. I mean that guy is only in on the actual negotiations. It's not like he's DeacMan.
 
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