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Chicago teachers are striking

RJKarl said:
You're right there is no guessing. A person PERSONALLY INVOLVED says YOU ARE WRONG:

"Chicago school board President David Vitale wouldn't comment Tuesday ahead of the continued negotiations, but he insisted Monday night the two sides were close on the two major remaining issues -- teacher evaluations and job security."

How in the hell are so EGO DRIVEN and ARROGANT to say YOU know more than he does?

You are AMAZING.
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I'm not so much amazing as you are incredibly fucking stupid.

This strike is about money. If the strike get's settled and the teachers take NO raises or increased benefits of any type, you can proclaim victory that the teachers did not make the strike about money. Otherwise quit trying to argue this isn't about money. It is about money.
 
DeacMan said:
That will NEVER happen. 25-30K people are on strike. Lewis was just quoted as saying there is no way this thing gets settled today.
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Oh I know...but it's what they should do. You don't want accountability measures? Fine...then you're all the reason why we have the worst schools in the country and you're all fired. You can reapply and we will consider your application based on qualifications.
 
DeacMan said:
I'm not so much amazing as you are incredibly fucking stupid.

This strike is about money. If the strike get's settled and the teachers take NO raises or increased benefits of any type, you can proclaim victory that the teachers did not make the strike about money. Otherwise quit trying to argue this isn't about money. It is about money.
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You are such a fucking asshole and always have been.

According to the PRESIDENT of the CHICAGO SCHOOL BOARD, that issue is SETTLED.

According to MULTIPLE sources the real sticking point now is teacher evaluations.

What's fucking stupid is you! You REFUSE to admit you are wrong even when people DIRECTLY INVOLVED say you are WRONG.

If you had ANY INTEGRITY, you'd understand you start a contract negotiation with MANY issues. Money was a PROBLEM, but it has been SOLVED.

Unless YOU know MORE than the PRESIDENT of the SCHOOL BOARD. He says you are wrong.

Tell the board YOU know MORE than he does.
 
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RJKarl said:
You are such a fucking asshole and always have been.

According to the PRESIDENT of the CHICAGO SCHOOL BOARD, that issue is SETTLED.

According to MULTIPLE sources the real sticking point now is teacher evaluations.

What's fucking stupid is you! You REFUSE to admit you are wrong even when people DIRECTLY INVOLVED say you are WRONG.

If you had ANY INTEGRITY, you'd understand you start a contract negotiation with MANY issues. Money was a PROBLEM, but it has been SOLVED.

Unless YOU know MORE than the PRESIDENT of the SCHOOL BOARD. He says you are wrong.

Tell the board YOU know MORE than he does.
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Sounds like they went to strike over money and other things, and are currently on strike about other things. You two are just arguing semantics.
 
palma, There would have been no strike if it was only money. That was settled BEFORE they went out on strike. I've given multiple sources, who were involved, who said it wasn't about the money. Seventwofour had another source.
 
RJKarl said:
You are such a fucking asshole and always have been.

According to the PRESIDENT of the CHICAGO SCHOOL BOARD, that issue is SETTLED.

According to MULTIPLE sources the real sticking point now is teacher evaluations.

What's fucking stupid is you! You REFUSE to admit you are wrong even when people DIRECTLY INVOLVED say you are WRONG.

If you had ANY INTEGRITY, you'd understand you start a contract negotiation with MANY issues. Money was a PROBLEM, but it has been SOLVED.

Unless YOU know MORE than the PRESIDENT of the SCHOOL BOARD. He says you are wrong.

Tell the board YOU know MORE than he does.
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Again, will raises be a part of any new deal or not? Yes or no?

Will any increases in benefits be a part of any new deal or not? Yes or no?
 
DeacMan said:
Again, will raises be a part of any new deal or not? Yes or no?

Will any increases in benefits be a part of any new deal or not? Yes or no?
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Now you are adding benefits after your money argument has been proven false.

the money issue is SETTLED. It DIDN'T cause or prolong the strike. The President of the board said so.

You are fucking amazing.
 
RJKarl said:
palma, There would have been no strike if it was only money. That was settled BEFORE they went out on strike. I've given multiple sources, who were involved, who said it wasn't about the money. Seventwofour had another source.
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It was not settled before they went out on strike. Nothing is settled.

In fact Lewis just said the sides remained far apart and that no deal would happen today.
 
seventwofour said:
I read it on the Tribune's website, but can't find it now. Here it is from a blogger. I'm sure I could find it elsewhere. http://www.chicagonow.com/families-...achers-strike-final-issues-under-negotiation/

As to your second point, I totally believe that. This outside group called Stand For Children pumped a lot of money into getting a piece of legislation passed that increased the percentage of union members needed to authorize a strike to 75%. The president of the organization bragged about how he effectively took away the union's ability to strike. Well 90% of the union - out of the total membership, not just the ones that voted -voted to authorize the strike. There is a big overlap between Stand For Children's big donors and Rahm's big donors.

Rahm is trying to privatize the hell out of CPS. He's got a lot of buddies in the charter school and construction business getting no-bid contracts on these schools. It's a joke that's considered progressive or liberal. He's pretty much a Republican.
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Thanks dude. Good stuff. I still don't quite know how to wrap my mind around all of this. I am so, so, so for a better urban education system, but I'm not at all convinced that that's exactly CTU's first priority.
 
Parts of the deal ARE settled. To say that EVERYTHING is causing this strike is WRONG.

once again you are proving to be the most arrogant and dishonest on the board.
 
WFFaithful said:
You are very right on several different levels. In the age of accountability, the teacher is the scapegoat. Accountability sounds great, but the way they are holding people accountable is absurd. We basically want every child to learn the exact same things and make the exact same scores on a standardized test. The unspoken assumption is that every child is equal. Far from it. States and the federal governments have spent, and continue to spend, gobs of money trying to fit everybody into the same mold. They fiddle with tests to make them easy enough for most to pass yet hard enough to look rigorous. Test making companies have make billions on producing horrible standardized tests with a research proven fail percentage. Remember the horrible reading passage leaked last spring that was used for years in multiple states? Teachers are sworn to secrecy with these tests, now even forbidden from reading the test questions. How many students failed because of that one horrible passage? State and federal officials have developed numerous expensive quick, fix-all programs which are forced on teachers to learn and use, but are often abandoned within a year or two when, surprisingly, they don't work. We are failing teachers and students for what are many times failures in the system. Are there some bad teachers, yes. Bad teachers are only a minuscule part of the problem. This authoritarian, top down approach to education is both ineffective and inefficient. Teachers are not respected by their own district, state, and federal education systems. These systems are dictating more and more of a teacher's daily routine like we are standardizing assembly plant lines in different states. Children are individuals. Teachers are professionals. Treat them both as such.

Problems with students are increasingly the teacher's fault. It is much easier for parents to blame the teacher or the school than to take responsibility for their own shortcomings. If the school doesn't listen, all they have to do is threaten a lawsuit. When I was in school, my teachers and my parents held me accountable to behave and do my work. If I didn't behave, you got a spanking at school and then another when you got home. I'm not necessarily arguing for corporal punishment as I am for parental responsibility.

Finally, the school system itself is creating an image problem. This ties back in with our accountability kick. We are promoting our students and our schools to the community based on the results of a single flawed test. How are you going to feel if your community school is suddenly labeled a failure based on the results of one test? The community loses respect and trust for their school, parents don't trust the teachers, students don't trust their teachers, and the school gets worse instead of better. There is very little real support for failing schools. People swoop in with a little money and a few quick-fixes without a long-term solution. The school fails, gets shut down, and the voucher crowd starts screaming, "I told you so!" Districts and states would be well served to work diligently to remove the stigmas associated with individual schools, not add them. They need to promote that they offer a quality education at all of their schools. They need to develop long term, attainable goals for schools and support them through then entire process. Our schools are good. Don't beat them down, support them.

There are other things that need to be done in regards to teacher training, individualized education plans, planning periods, etc., but building respect is a big part of the fix.
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excellent post. damn right.
 
RJKarl said:
Parts of the deal ARE settled. To say that EVERYTHING is causing this strike is WRONG.

once again you are proving to be the most arrogant and dishonest on the board.
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Nope. Wrong again. Not settled.

From the New York Times TODAY.

In the meantime, Mayor Rahm Emanuel declined to discuss the negotiations on Tuesday, but called the strike avoidable.

“This was a strike of choice, a bad choice for our children and not necessary,” he said at a news conference inside a school on the South Side as striking teachers chanted and banged drums outside.

Ms. Gadlin, the union spokeswoman, said its members were prepared to stay out on strike “as long as it takes.”

“We are fighting for our students,” she said in the statement. “We are fighting for education justice. We remain optimistic. Our fight is over fair compensation, working conditions and resources for our students.”

FROM THE SAME ARTICLE TODAY!!!!!

Union leaders say there continues to be an array of differences, including benefits, raises based on experience level, the lack of air-conditioning in classrooms and training days for teachers.

Raises and benefits NOT SETTLED and INCLUDED AMONG THE ARRAY OF DIFFERENCES. TODAY.

I suppose your next tact will be to say the head of the school board also speaks for the union leadership.
 
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RJKarl said:
You have no integrity. you aren't worth any more time.
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Kind a sucks when the union leadership tells you to your face that money remains an issue. Salary still not settled and they are still fighting over benefits too (more money, more money, more money). But of course this is really just about putting "kids" first.
 
seventwofour said:
I read it on the Tribune's website, but can't find it now. Here it is from a blogger. I'm sure I could find it elsewhere. http://www.chicagonow.com/families-...achers-strike-final-issues-under-negotiation/

As to your second point, I totally believe that. This outside group called Stand For Children pumped a lot of money into getting a piece of legislation passed that increased the percentage of union members needed to authorize a strike to 75%. The president of the organization bragged about how he effectively took away the union's ability to strike. Well 90% of the union - out of the total membership, not just the ones that voted -voted to authorize the strike. There is a big overlap between Stand For Children's big donors and Rahm's big donors.

Rahm is trying to privatize the hell out of CPS. He's got a lot of buddies in the charter school and construction business getting no-bid contracts on these schools. It's a joke that's considered progressive or liberal. He's pretty much a Republican.
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I think he's an opportunist and crony capitalist. Private industry in education is just another way to redistribute wealth from the middle class to the rich.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Thanks dude. Good stuff. I still don't quite know how to wrap my mind around all of this. I am so, so, so for a better urban education system, but I'm not at all convinced that that's exactly CTU's first priority.
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I'm more convinced about the teachers than Rahm and corporate education.
 
seventwofour said:
I read it on the Tribune's website, but can't find it now. Here it is from a blogger. I'm sure I could find it elsewhere. http://www.chicagonow.com/families-...achers-strike-final-issues-under-negotiation/

As to your second point, I totally believe that. This outside group called Stand For Children pumped a lot of money into getting a piece of legislation passed that increased the percentage of union members needed to authorize a strike to 75%. The president of the organization bragged about how he effectively took away the union's ability to strike. Well 90% of the union - out of the total membership, not just the ones that voted -voted to authorize the strike. There is a big overlap between Stand For Children's big donors and Rahm's big donors.

Rahm is trying to privatize the hell out of CPS. He's got a lot of buddies in the charter school and construction business getting no-bid contracts on these schools. It's a joke that's considered progressive or liberal. He's pretty much a Republican.
Click to expand...

PhDeac said:
I think he's an opportunist and crony capitalist. Private industry in education is just another way to redistribute wealth from the middle class to the rich.
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Disgusting. Charter schools are just a way for people to get rich off of the government. Similar to what has happened with standardized tests and quick fixes.
 
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