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Chicago teachers are striking

Junebug said:
I don't want our best and brightest teaching. I want them in the private sector creating immediate jobs and making things go. I want them doing, not teaching.
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this is the stance of a moron.

DeaconSig said:
The "all the time off" argument has to be the dumbest one consistently made on these boards.
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bullshit. these idiots (not the best and brightest remember) get to spend all summer jet setting around the world in luxury yachts since they rake in the dough. plus some of them are UNION EMPLOYEES!!!!!!!!!11111111111
 
To be fair, with the average salary given in this thread - a married couple both working as teachers in Chicago making the average salary ($69,000) would be in the top 15% of all US households in yearly income - and that's before calculating the early retirement and considerable pension guaranteed to them.

Now, a lot of teachers in a lot of cities don't make that kind of money, and any kind of overarching commentary on teachers pay nationwide is really hard to do because it varies so widely (and in many, many cases - especially in rural areas - is dramatically too low) ... but I'd say being in the top 15% of US households is a pretty high paying job, and probably fair or more than fair.
 
I don't want to claim my sample is representative because I don't know for sure, but my wife and her colleagues work more than 2080 hours in a year. "Time off" is greatly exaggerated.
 
Junebug said:
Enlighten me.
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I will chip in on Sig's behalf. For the most part, people think that teacher's work 7 hours a day, 9 to 9.5 months a year. What that analysis ignores is the amount of time that teachers spend grading papers, preparing lesson plans and assignments, attending the endless workshops they are forced to attend to learn to "teach to the test," covering after school enrichment programs, etc. Even during the summer and winter breaks, most teachers I know spend some of their time doing stuff to prepare for the coming school year.

I am very good friends with several teachers and my mother taught middle school for 37 years. They almost certainly do not work the same number of hours that I work in a year, but I bet that my mother did work 80% of the hours that I work in the private sector, and her salary after 37 years was about 40% of what my entry level salary was.
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
I will chip in on Sig's behalf. For the most part, people think that teacher's work 7 hours a day, 9 to 9.5 months a year. What that analysis ignores is the amount of time that teachers spend grading papers, preparing lesson plans and assignments, attending the endless workshops they are forced to attend to learn to "teach to the test," covering after school enrichment programs, etc. Even during the summer and winter breaks, most teachers I know spend some of their time doing stuff to prepare for the coming school year.

I am very good friends with several teachers and my mother taught middle school for 37 years. They almost certainly do not work the same number of hours that I work in a year, but I bet that my mother did work 80% of the hours that I work in the private sector, and her salary after 37 years was about 40% of what my entry level salary was.
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80% is almost the same thing I said in my post (75%).
 
WakeandBake said:
for a teaching job, it is piss. They aren't babysitters, they're the ones who spend the whole day with your kid trying to teach him and 30 other kids.

Again, this country's priorities are totally out of whack. I'm sure you don't raise an eyebrow when you read that lawyers getting people out of DWIs make twice that. You pat him on the back for going to school for three extra years and getting out there and making his ends.

God forbid a teacher should get paid more
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I agree with you that teachers should get paid significantly more in the grand scheme of things (hopefully with the funds coming from a redution in our military budget). However, that is not going to occur absent a complete restructuring of our eductation system, which is simply not going to happen with any of our current elected idiots. So for the current teachers and their union, they are who they are (aka not the "best and brightest") and knew what they were getting themselves into when they signed up for the gig. Therefore, I do not feel bad for Chicago teachers making $76k average plus benefits. If you want to raze the system and rebuild it from the ground up to pay teachers significantly more then great, I'm with you, but in the confines of the current structure this strike is just another union hachet job and they need to stfu or change careers. If you appreciate your kid's teacher and feel that he/she is not compensated enough by the system, then feel free to give them a couple hundred bucks every year as a token of your appreciation (I've started doing this even with a couple of my kid's preschool teachers and it does seem to be very appreciated). Having faith in our current government to do anything correctly is just a sad false hope.
 
Junebug said:
I don't want our best and brightest teaching. I want them in the private sector creating immediate jobs and making things go. I want them doing, not teaching.

You don't have to be the best or the brightest to teach kindergarten, or, for that matter, calculus to a high school senior. You have to be reasonably intelligent and have a passion for teaching. The promise of a $76k average salary is plenty enough not to discourage someone who has that passion, especially considering the vacation time teachers have. By the time it's all said and done, that probably amortizes out to a ~$100k job in the private sector once you factor in all the time off.

To think, as some on this board seem to suggest, that teaching salaries should be comparable to similar private sector jobs is ludicrous.
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This is so far off base I don't even know where to begin.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I agree with you that teachers should get paid significantly more in the grand scheme of things (hopefully with the funds coming from a redution in our military budget). However, that is not going to occur absent a complete restructuring of our eductation system, which is simply not going to happen with any of our current elected idiots. So for the current teachers and their union, they are who they are (aka not the "best and brightest") and knew what they were getting themselves into when they signed up for the gig. Therefore, I do not feel bad for Chicago teachers making $76k average plus benefits. If you want to raze the system and rebuild it from the ground up to pay teachers significantly more then great, I'm with you, but in the confines of the current structure this strike is just another union hachet job and they need to stfu or change careers. If you appreciate your kid's teacher and feel that he/she is not compensated enough by the system, then feel free to give them a couple hundred bucks every year as a token of your appreciation (I've started doing this even with a couple of my kid's preschool teachers and it does seem to be very appreciated). Having faith in our current government to do anything correctly is just a sad false hope.
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the finland model would work here dammit. i know it would.
 
How long does this go on before we can finally stick a dagger in the myth that Rahm Emanuel gets shit done?
 
I thought that myth died 3 years ago.
 
RJKarl said:
They got their tax cuts ten years ago and we had the slowest decade of private sector job growth since the Depression. Tax cuts do not create jobs.
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Then let's just tax everyone at 100% and our employment levels should stay exactly the same, correct? Holy shit, we just solved the nation's fiscal crisis.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Then let's just tax everyone at 100% and our employment levels should stay exactly the same, correct? Holy shit, we just solved the nation's fiscal crisis.
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How the hell are we going to fund a superpower at 0% taxes?

Oh wait, there are reasonable tax increases below the 100% level and above 0%? Golly gee, Mr. Straw Man.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Perhaps you missed the part where he ran for Mayor of Chicago and was elected.
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I figured you would agree that getting elected does not necessarily mean getting shit done.
 
WakeandBake said:
exhibit A of why the country is in the shitter.

Of course, I'll hear back about how its the fault of the working poor and the lazy indigent.
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Why do we need our best and brightest teaching kindergarten? This makes no sense to me.

We need reasonably intelligent people with a passion for the job. Bill Gates needs to be building computers, not teaching children the alphabet.
 
DeaconSig said:
The "all the time off" argument has to be the dumbest one consistently made on these boards.
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I'm sorry, but how long can it take to devise a lesson plan for first graders? And even for high schoolers, once it's done, it's done. Summers, holidays, fall, winter, and spring breaks? What's an average school year? 180 days? My first 5 years of practicing law I had worked 180 days by the end of July.
 
PhDeac said:
I figured you would agree that getting elected does not necessarily mean getting shit done.
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The point is that the myth was alive and well enough for him to run on.
 
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