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Put the White Back in the White House

Condescension and obvious logical flaws aside (you know, the whole growing up bi-racial in less than friendly places-thing), there's a valid point in here...

I don't know how big a deal the bi-racial thing would be in Hawaii or Indonesia. Indonesia has a ridiculous number of ethnic groups and a colonial history. The discrimination there under Suharto was against Chinese Indonesians.

And Hawaii...hell being white wouldn't have made you not a minority in Hawaii, especially not at that time.
 
I don't know how big a deal the bi-racial thing would be in Hawaii or Indonesia. Indonesia has a ridiculous number of ethnic groups and a colonial history. The discrimination there under Suharto was against Chinese Indonesians.

And Hawaii...hell being white wouldn't have made you not a minority in Hawaii, especially not at that time.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that experiences of bi-racial people vary depending on how othered they are or feel in relation to histories of colonial domination (in both Hawaii and Indonesia) and I also think it's extremely condescending to suggest that Obama's experiences growing up bi-racial are overblown because there are a "ridiculous number of ethnic groups and a colonial history."

As an aside, a white relative of mine adopted a bi-racial child in a very liberal and fairly diverse suburb in a big city and she recently confided in me that the racism that her son experienced in privileged and progressive settings outweighed any overt racism in traditional settings. I'm not claiming any special knowledge or anything, but it's merely to say that assumptions about the intersections of race, class, and geography are oftentimes extremely off-base.
 
He's black. He looks black. That's how Obama was treated. Being found to be bi-racial in the 60s/70s was even worse. You didn't really belong to either group.
 
He's black. He looks black. That's how Obama was treated. Being found to be bi-racial in the 60s/70s was even worse. You didn't really belong to either group.

It's a really flawed argument, even though the class/SES component is actually pretty lacking in most mainstream dialogue.

ETA: pos

ETA: The bold is still true.
 
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Good lord the tightie righties on this board are on a roll. If you dont think obamas American experience is exponentially closer to the "typical" black American experience than Romney, Ryan, McCain, or Palin then your head is up your ass. Bill Clinton's American experience is as well. For chrissakes get the fuck out of here you just muck this place up with ridiculous tangential bullshit
 
Good lord the tightie righties on this board are on a roll. If you dont think obamas American experience is exponentially closer to the "typical" black American experience than Romney, Ryan, McCain, or Palin then your head is up your ass. Bill Clinton's American experience is as well. For chrissakes get the fuck out of here you just muck this place up with ridiculous tangential bullshit

Bill Clinton's life experience I buy. But Obama's? Exponentially closer to the "typical black"? Private high schools and Ivy League colleges? Give me a break. Obama is more like Romney and McCain than he is the "typical black".
 
Bill Clinton's life experience I buy. But Obama's? Exponentially closer to the "typical black"? Private high schools and Ivy League colleges? Give me a break. Obama is more like Romney and McCain than he is the "typical black".

Are you honestly denying the impact of race in institutions of higher learning and in predominately white spaces?
 
Raised by a single mother, one who had to struggle financially for long periods in her life. Middle class grandparents, ostracized by his peers for being different. Come on man
 
Are you honestly denying the impact of race in institutions of higher learning and in predominately white spaces?

No.

Are you honestly saying that simply because Obama is black, regardless of the fact that he attended private high schools and Harvard, that his life experience is "exponentially closer" to that of the "typical black"?
 
No.

Are you honestly saying that simply because Obama is black, regardless of the fact that he attended private high schools and Harvard, that his life experience is "exponentially closer" to that of the "typical black"?

No, I'm not saying that and I never did say that. Where did you get that from? WakeandBake wrote that, actually.

My point was that there's a continuum, in which lived experience of race, particularly bi-raciality, matters. Perhaps President Obama's experience hasn't been quite as harrowing as you might assume, imagine, or expect, but it is insane to suggest that because he's private school educated that he hasn't had an "authentic" or legitimate experience with racism or forces of oppression.
 
It's not typical black inner-city, but it is nothing like being white. He absolutely faced race based problems. to think he didn't is really naive.
 
No, I'm not saying that and I never did say that. Where did you get that from? WakeandBake wrote that, actually.

My point was that there's a continuum, in which lived experience of race, particularly bi-raciality, matters. Perhaps President Obama's experience hasn't been quite as harrowing as you might assume, imagine, or expect, but it is insane to suggest that because he's private school educated that he hasn't had an "authentic" or legitimate experience with racism or forces of oppression.

I agree with your post. And you're correct that Wake and Bake posted that with which I disagreed.
 
Good lord the tightie righties on this board are on a roll. If you dont think obamas American experience is exponentially closer to the "typical" black American experience than Romney, Ryan, McCain, or Palin then your head is up your ass. Bill Clinton's American experience is as well. For chrissakes get the fuck out of here you just muck this place up with ridiculous tangential bullshit

BTW, just what the fuck is the "typical" black American?
 
What a dipshit response from jh. You're better than that. There is plenty of room to call the guy a fuckwad on this thread and then go on with your witch-hunt on any of the other threads.

You aren't a racist. But the right's refusal to recognize and deal with these wackos does not help the situation. A cynical person would believe it is related to the fact that the wacko is voting for your team, which means you will find reasons not to outwardly condemn him. Luckily for you, I am not a cynic.

He's a racist. There are Democrats that are racists. Can we move on now?
 
Shorty, are you saying the race-based problems Obama faced DIDN'T make his experience "exponentially" closer to black Americans than Romney and McCain?

And that even with the private schooling and such, the fact that he decided to identify as black, move to Chicago to work with blacks, marry a black woman, raise his black daughters, and live with his black mother-in-law haven't made his experience "exponentially" closer to that of black Americans than Romney and McCain?

Can you explain your logic here? For one, your definition of "typical" black American seems to be something close to a poor kid from Hope, Arkansas without accounting for the diversity among black people in America. But no matter the diversity, doubt there are more than a handful of black people whose experiences are anywhere close to Romney and McCain.
 
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that experiences of bi-racial people vary depending on how othered they are or feel in relation to histories of colonial domination (in both Hawaii and Indonesia) and I also think it's extremely condescending to suggest that Obama's experiences growing up bi-racial are overblown because there are a "ridiculous number of ethnic groups and a colonial history."

As an aside, a white relative of mine adopted a bi-racial child in a very liberal and fairly diverse suburb in a big city and she recently confided in me that the racism that her son experienced in privileged and progressive settings outweighed any overt racism in traditional settings. I'm not claiming any special knowledge or anything, but it's merely to say that assumptions about the intersections of race, class, and geography are oftentimes extremely off-base.

Not sure you're getting the idea. There are a lot of people in Indonesia that have European blood -- not quite as ubiquitous as The Philippines, but still. European blood is particularly common among the upper classes. They're often preferred for media and acting jobs, so pretty much the opposite of discriminated against. And again, Suharto ran the joint and his focus was on the Chinese. That actually started under Sukarno as he tried to reduce the foreign domination of Indonesia's economy by nationalizing Dutch companies and enacting laws to curtail Chinese domination of rural economies. Obviously this continued and was intensified by Suharto against the backdrop of the Cold War.

Obama stayed in Hawaii when his mom moved back to Indonesia when he was in high school. If he was being treated badly for whatever reason, you'd think he would have gone with her. From my friends that have lived in Hawaii, if anything it's the white people that get the stinkeye there from the plurality (previously majority, may still be but I think it's pretty close now) Pacific Islanders, and there are is a higher percentage of white people there now than there were in 1960.

But my point was that anyone trying to say that Obama's experience as a racial minority constitutes a commonality with the "black experience" (whatever that would be) is telling a fib, though maybe they don't know it. You seemed to agree with that, and I don't agree that it's condescending to specify some of the likely differences.

But it's interesting what you say about the very liberal suburb...a lot of people would have us believe that liberals are incapable of racism.
 
Shorty, are you saying the race-based problems Obama faced DIDN'T make his experience "exponentially" closer to black Americans than Romney and McCain?

And that even with the private schooling and such, the fact that he decided to identify as black, move to Chicago to work with blacks, marry a black woman, raise his black daughters, and live with his black mother-in-law haven't made his experience "exponentially" closer to that of black Americans than Romney and McCain?

Can you explain your logic here? For one, your definition of "typical" black American seems to be something close to a poor kid from Hope, Arkansas without accounting for the diversity among black people in America. But no matter the diversity, doubt there are more than a handful of black people whose experiences are anywhere close to Romney and McCain.

I wasn't referring to race-based problems, at least not alone. I was referring to total life experience, of which race-based problems are a part. Read posts number 87 and 90.

Given the places Obama lived growing up and the schools he attended, I don't believe he is "exponentially" closer to the typical American than McCain or Romney, much less the typical black American. For the record, I don't believe McCain's and Romney's backgrounds help them relate well to the typical American either.
 
So race based problems are a part but that still doesn't make his experiences exponentially closer than Romney and McCain who you admit are nowhere close to average Americans?

My goodness.
 
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