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Thread: 2018-2019 NHL Thread – Thunderstorm Warning

  1. #241
    Selanne Likely To Retire If Season Is Cancelled


    For anyone who can get to Atlantic City next weekend, Brad Richards and Scott Hartnell are hosting a game to raise money for the victims of Sandy. Players include Simon Gagne (my fav), Bobby Ryan, Ville Leino, Brian Boyle, John Carlson, James Neal, Wayne Simmonds and a couple other Flyers / Rangers.

    Atlantic City To Host Charity Hockey Game Next Weekend

    Edit: apparently Henrik Lundqvist is coming back from Sweden to play as well. /swoon
    Last edited by avalon; 11-16-2012 at 12:41 PM.

  2. #242
    Haha, when I read through the NBA lockout thread to get an idea of what people were saying then vs the NHL lockout now, I did notice a lot of opinions from you, bob.

  3. #243
    Is Flyers' Snider helping thaw NHL talks?

    Multiple sources confirmed to the Daily News on Friday that Snider, once seen as a supporter of the Bettman's push to rein in the players' share of revenue, has soured on the process after it became apparent that a deal would not be brokered in time for a Dec. 1 puck drop.

    Put simply: Snider and the rest of the NHL's owners were promised a big win by Bettman, with player concessions on revenue division and contracting rights. The best they'll get now is a small win in revenue split - coupled with a demoralized fan base and all-important corporate sponsors that are ready to quit.

    A source familiar with Snider's thinking characterized it as: "If this is the deal we are going to get, what's the point of dragging this out?"

    But seriously, if true, this could be a big deal. Not just in terms of Ed Snider... he is always portrayed as a big player, but (as Friedman pointed out this morning) the majority owner of the Flyers is Comcast. Who owns NBC. Hopefully they are making their business interest known. (Plus, true or not, this story is a hit to Bettman's negotiating position.)

    Also, this isn't the first time I've read that Bettman had promised owners a big win. Why in the world would you do that when you know you are going against an incredibly tough negotiator?
    Last edited by avalon; 11-17-2012 at 11:04 AM.

  4. #244
    Scooter Banks
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    Mar 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Things like this lead me to believe Bettman will not be around for the next CBA. We've lost a lot of games and the owners are seeing they will get nowhere close to what they want. Bettman is failing them at the cost of millions.

  5. #245
    Apparently there is language in most of the contracts with league sponsors that they can seek compensation from the NHL once 25% of the season is lost. And that is real money from the league's bank account as opposed to projected gate revenues that would involve matched expenses. I've seen speculation that they could fit in a 68 game season if they start on December 1st. So that would mean that they would need to start training camp in the first week of December to avoid having to compensate sponsors.

    Owners may have been told when they voted to support the lockout to expect a December 1st start date. Even if they weren't, most probably aren't too bent out of shape about losing the first two months or so, since those games don't make as much money as later games. As that start date looks less likely, there will be more pressure from teams to get a deal done.

    The next week could be a huge pressure point for the NHL. I'm really interested to see how Fehr handles it. Hopefully he has an idea in his back pocket that will move this process forward.

  6. #246
    Posting something fun, because I came across this when searching for a Youtube video and it made me laugh. Should be of particular interest to Canes fans, since the best (unintentional?) hilarity comes from Jeff Skinner.

  7. #247
    I'm totally talking to myself here. Might as well keep it up. Meeting starting at 7pm. 18 players in NYC for the meeting. (Including Marty St Louis. How can they not get a deal done with a perennial Lady Byng candidate in the room?) Core economic issues and contracting rights are on the agenda. Some have suggested it seems like the players want to get it all out there and start actually talking. But no new proposal.

    I kind of hate that the NHL is sending Brian Burke to discuss contracting rights, as he hates cap circumvention more than anyone. Also that the meeting is at the NHL headquarters, which makes it easy for anyone to run out immediately crying to the press if things don't immediately go their way.

    Let's go people. Mr. Snider wants a deal. Get 'er done.

  8. #248
    Hopefully the NHLPA tries something different and makes an actual concession.

  9. #249
    I disagree. The old CBA expired. They're negotiating from zero.

  10. #250
    If they are negotiating from zero then I don't see how you can compare concessions. To do so you'd have to give the owners credit for their anchoring position, and Fehr never made an anchoring offer, so the players would never get any credit. ETA: by anchoring I mean setting an extreme starting point, like the owners did with their first offer, so they could negotiate towards the middle.

    I'm with Deacon, I give the players credit from coming off a real number from the last CBA more than I give the owners credit for coming off a number they made up in their heads.

    Either way, honestly neither have given much other than exasperation, hopefully they have an actual discussion. No reports of anyone running out angry yet, so...... progress?
    Last edited by avalon; 11-19-2012 at 09:45 PM.

  11. #251
    Owners are at 50/50 with a provision that takes their share over 50% so they can honor existing contracts. Contracts that are entirely subject to the in place CBA.

  12. #252
    50/50 *sounds* fair, but that's PR spin. It is no less arbitrary than the owners' initial 43% offer. I'm not giving owners' credit for moving off a number that they made up. (In fairness, the players' asking that their contracts be guaranteed is also PR spin.)

    Update from last night: owners won't talk about contracting rights until they get economics cleared up, players won't give on economics unless they know they will get something back in terms of contracting rights. Good lord, this is frustrating.

    The owners asked the players to present a full proposal. Which, on the surface, seems ridiculous. (What, you can't discuss economics until you know the players' stance on whether or not teams should have to pay for father/son trips???) But it sounds like the owners want the players to take an official stance so that they can't move the goalposts as negotiations continue. The players are working on proposals and will go back to the owners today or tomorrow. Hopefully the players are willing to work in the owners' framework (or have a new idea that is palatable to both), and hopefully both sides are willing to give some on demands.

  13. #253
    Also, gossip update, Philly's Comcast SportsNet insider Tim Panaccio has gone after Jeremy Jacobs a couple times recently. I think Ed Snider might legitimately hate Jacobs. (A Maple Leafs blogger brought up the idea over the weekend of hockey fans getting "Team Edward" and "Team Jacobs" tee shirts. I'm happy to be on the side of the good guys.)

    Edit: adding this here, because it's not worth a new post, but Giroux is coming back to the States for tests after taking a hit to the head in his German league. panicpanicpanicpanicpanic!
    Last edited by avalon; 11-20-2012 at 10:40 AM.

  14. #254
    OK, we are at the latest “biggest day in the negotiations.” Which is bigger than the last biggest day, but not as big as the next biggest day, I assume. Meeting at 10:30am. Players expected to make a new proposal. I’m thinking we have three most likely outcomes:

    1) The players present something that the two sides can negotiate off of, and there is a lengthy meeting to start the negotiations. (Which would be the, like, sixth day of actual negotiations in the last three months.) Players and owners continue to negotiate over the weekend, which they can do with less fanfare and attention due to the holidays in the US.

    2) The players present an offer that still guarantees them a set $$ amount instead of linking to revenues, the owners walk out in a huff, dueling press conferences ensue.

    3) The players present something that the two sides can negotiate off of, but the owners (either because they think this is a sign that the players are cracking or because they are desperate to prove Dec 1st is not a target date) walk out in a huff anyway and cry to the media, hoping to push the players to agree to their latest offer.

    Hoping for the first, obviously. The second would be frustrating. The third would drive me to the brink of insanity. Bettman keeps showing that he thinks they can talk to the players through the press. There will be a bunch of players in attendance today. The players will be listening to those guys, not to what Daly says to the media. Be smart, please.

    Friedman's latest: NHL players' next move is crucial

    And DGB:

    Down Goes Brown @DownGoesBrown
    Tomorrow’s NHL/NHLPA meeting is scheduled for 10:00 a.m. So pencil in Fehr to show up around 11:30, and Bettman’s hissyfit walkout at 11:45.
    Last edited by avalon; 11-21-2012 at 05:08 PM.

  15. #255
    Here's the NHLPA Memo: It certainly sounds promising, but so did the last go-around.

  16. #256
    Oh hey RHTB&G, I remember you! Welcome back.

    Bettman pours a big bucket of ice cold water on everyone's hopes. They have apparently agreed to leave entry level contracts at 3 years. That is it. Taking a pass on the rest of the offer. No negotiations planned. So.... to the brink of insanity I go!

    I understand this is a negotiation tactic. And that the League is likely targeting a Jan 1st start date, giving us another month to get this done. But man, as a fan, this one was a killer. Mirtle:

    James Mirtle @mirtle
    This is the difference between the two offers: NHL 55.5%-51.5-50-50-50. NHLPA: 56.3%-53.8-52-50-50. It’s absurd how small it is.
    LeBrun reassures us all:

    Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
    The 2 sides got closer today... Deal won't get done unless NHL is willing to step down on some contracting rights demands...

    Make Whole $$$ asked for by players will need to go down as well.... But today was not a waste no matter what anybody says
    This is cracking me up so much, I think I might really have lost it:

    Renaud Lavoie @RenLavoieRDS
    Gary Bettman: “there was some movement in our direction and it was appreciated.”
    Last edited by avalon; 11-21-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  17. #257
    Avalon, any update on the talks today? Preciate all your coverage.

  18. #258
    Never mind. You answered it.

  19. #259
    Haha, I really am predictible. But a quick recap outside of my meltdown:

    The players made an offer in the NHL's framework. They asked for $393MM in "make whole." Right in between what they expected fully funded make whole to cost and what the NHL offered. (So the two sides are now officially apart $182MM over the life of the contract.) There was only one change to contracting rights from the last CBA, they have a rule to help stop back-diving contracts. There were things in the offer that the league won't like, and things that seem to be in there as something to give in negotiations, but certainly something to negotiate off of if the league wanted to.

    As I think about this more, I don't think the NHL is trying to go around Fehr to get the players to take their last offer. If they were, they'd have Bill Daly talk instead of Bettman. The players hate Bettman, they know that. I think they are trying to deliver the message that, just because the NHLPA is agreeing to work off of their framework, doesn't mean the league will give up on the other issues easily.

    We'll see how it works out. The players seem to think they made a big movement today, and they are going to be really angry with how quickly it was rejected. But I think Fehr had planned for this. His statements were too rehearsed, the response of players was too fast. There is more negotiation to be done, but they're all burning money in the process.

    I keep reading these two Tweets from one of the Flyers people I follow, and they crack me up.

    FlyersGoalScoredBy @FlyGoalScoredBy
    You have to think all owners and especially players will look back on this privately and say how fucking stupid was that?

    FlyersGoalScoredBy @FlyGoalScoredBy
    ME: Hey, I want to give you money! OWNERS & PLAYERS: Not now. We fightin. #lockoutbottomline #mba #goodbusiness

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon View Post
    I like the 2nd tweet.

    Good work with all the updates. I am too lazy and do not care enough to read long stories about it.
    So you're saying you don't read my posts?

    JK, thanks, I'd be happy to post all my nonsense here just to vent, but I appreciate knowing that other people are fine with my incessant thread-bumping.

    And I'm back to feeling optimistic. Now they really are too close to not get a deal done. It'll just be a stupid, abbreviated season with an asterisk. Let's hope they offer up more to the public than writing "thank you fans!" on the ice, like they did last time.

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