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Thread: 2018-2019 NHL Thread It's Ovi's World Now

  1. #361
    Scooter Banks
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    So Bettman says everything is off the table and is publicly bad mouthing Fehr. We're back to the league posturing and whining to the media. We've gone backwards.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Hahaha. The NHL wanted to get a deal done without Fehr. The players insisted on bringing Fehr back. The owners decided to end talks and pin the blame on Fehr. Fehr brings a proposal that makes it look ridiculously stupid to let the process break down now. The owners are sticking with the original plan, with owners sending out press releases blaming Fehr, who, again, wasn't in the room for any meeting they took part in, as far as I know.

    Don Fehr: professional troll.
    Why does Fehr have to be in the room? The owners wanted a deal with certain guaranteed conditions that they believed they had negotiated by pumping more money into the make whole. Fehr comes back with a proposal that modifies all of those conditions and then goes to the media to say how close they are to deal. If you want to find out how close you are to a deal, why don't you put the original proposal (or any of the proposals) to a union vote?
    Last edited by BigEastDeac; 12-07-2012 at 12:32 AM.

  3. #363
    Scooter Banks
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    Why does the league have to storm out of the room like angry four year olds every time they don't like something?

    Either way, all offers from the league have been rescinded and we're back to square one. The league told the players not to expect to meet again before next week (if at all).

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEastDeac View Post
    Why does Fehr have to be in the room? The owners wanted a deal with certain guaranteed conditions that they believed they had negotiated by pumping more money into the make whole. Fehr comes back with a proposal that modifies all of those conditions and then goes to the media to say how close they are to deal. If you want to find out how close you are to a deal, why don't you put the original proposal (or any of the proposals) to a union vote?
    Well, didn't the NHLPA hire him to negotiate for them? Not having your negotiator in the room is like not taking your lawyer to court. Yeah, you could do it, but the chances are good that you will get screwed over. If you want to say they shouldn't have hired him, that is a different story.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by redwing42 View Post
    Well, didn't the NHLPA hire him to negotiate for them? Not having your negotiator in the room is like not taking your lawyer to court. Yeah, you could do it, but the chances are good that you will get screwed over. If you want to say they shouldn't have hired him, that is a different story.
    It's not like they were flying solo. They had a break between negotiating sessions and Steve Fehr was in the room the whole time.

    Look, my point is the owners are justified in being pissed because they negotiated certain conditions in the players-owners meeting and the proposal Fehr comes back with changes every single one.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEastDeac View Post
    Why does Fehr have to be in the room? The owners wanted a deal with certain guaranteed conditions that they believed they had negotiated by pumping more money into the make whole. Fehr comes back with a proposal that modifies all of those conditions and then goes to the media to say how close they are to deal. If you want to find out how close you are to a deal, why don't you put the original proposal (or any of the proposals) to a union vote?
    What did they negotiate? All I read is that they talked generals on Tuesday, and the specifics didn't come up until Wednesday. I can't imagine that the players would have agreed to five year contract limits.

    I don't get the vote argument. Can't the same be said for the owners? What is the point? They are in communication with the players and can gauge interest, they don't need to vote on every offer.
    Last edited by avalon; 12-07-2012 at 10:44 AM.

  7. #367
    Also WTF is up with the moderate owners? They took part in active negotiations for exactly ONE DAY before storming off? I don't care of the players came in and offered a 60/40 split with no salary cap, you should be able to make it more than one day. (Unless, of course, the storming off is just choreographed theatrics.)

  8. #368
    OK, I was wrong on the press releases blaming Fehr, only Tanenbaum's really does. The rest just seem like "we are disappointed we couldn't get to a deal." (Tanenbaum is the one who told a reporter on Wednesday that they would "keep talking until they have a deal" btw.)

    Burkle's is interesting to me. Basically just says they think they were close to a deal, they understood that the players wanted to move slowly since they weren't negotiators, and then Fehr came back so they left. Bizarre.

    Link

    Friedman's latest: Implosion in NHL talks leaves players with few options

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    What did they negotiate? All I read is that they talked generals on Tuesday, and the specifics didn't come up until Wednesday. I can't imagine that the players would have agreed to five year contract limits.

    I don't get the vote argument. Can't the same be said for the owners? What is the point? They are in communication with the players and can gauge interest, they don't need to vote on every offer.
    It sounds like the owners thought they had negotiated something. The owners will give you $300MM in make whole and if you give us a 10 year CBA, 5 year SPC max, no compliance buy-outs or caps on escrow during transition. Everything else, negotiable. NHLPA's response is we'll take the $300MM and give you nothing that you asked for. How does that sound?

    I think it is a lot easier to get the general consensus from 30 owners than it is 600+ players. Also, it is only among the owners that you have individuals losing money every year. They probably have a better idea on what they're willing to accept. Players will only make money on the deal, whatever it looks like.

    If I were an owner, I wouldn't waste my time with Fehr either at this point.

  10. #370
    Scooter Banks
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    At least Fehr doesn't storm out of the room in a hissy fit every other day.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEastDeac View Post
    It sounds like the owners thought they had negotiated something. The owners will give you $300MM in make whole and if you give us a 10 year CBA, 5 year SPC max, no compliance buy-outs or caps on escrow during transition. Everything else, negotiable. NHLPA's response is we'll take the $300MM and give you nothing that you asked for. How does that sound?
    Do you have a link? I haven't read anything that implied that the players agreed to anything on Tuesday. The only thing close to a specific that I saw was that the owners had offered to ease up on their demads in regards to contracting rights.

  12. #372
    Scooter Banks
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    The owners keep playing this take-it-or-leave-it game. They want to put their offer on the table and it go untouched. Every time they submit an offer, the players make adjustments and the owners act outraged and storm out of the room. If they don't like adjustments, they just need to adjust it back and continue until they meet somewhere in the middle. That's how a negotiation works...not take it or leave it followed by storming out and crying to the media.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Do you have a link? I haven't read anything that implied that the players agreed to anything on Tuesday. The only thing close to a specific that I saw was that the owners had offered to ease up on their demads in regards to contracting rights.
    No link, I just don't think the owners dropped changes to unrestricted free agency, entry-level contracts and arbitration, and made a jump in make whole so the NHLPA could squeeze them on their supposed non negotiable points. That seems to be confirmed by their reaction to the NHLPA's counter proposal.

  14. #374
    Agree with Deadbolt, there have been no actual negotiations.

    And why in the world is a 5 year contract length a "hill to die on"? BTW, love that Daly stole that line from a Bob McKenzie article earlier in this process:

    Finally, a quick word on the system issues and contracting rights. Both the NHL and NHLPA believe these are critical issues and, to a point, they absolutely are. But only to a point and with a couple of exceptions, there shouldn't be a hill there that's worth dying on for either side.
    John Shannon from last night:

    John Shannon @JSportsnet
    Just the Facts: NHL expect a simple YES or NO on All 3 key issues.... 10 Year CBA...5 Year contracts/5% Variance...and Compliance issues
    John Shannon @JSportsnet
    They got neither a YES or a NO. They got a counter proposal.... And so it goes.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEastDeac View Post
    No link, I just don't think the owners dropped changes to unrestricted free agency, entry-level contracts and arbitration, and made a jump in make whole so the NHLPA could squeeze them on their supposed non negotiable points. That seems to be confirmed by their reaction to the NHLPA's counter proposal.
    I don't think there is such thing as a non negotiable point. There are points that either side will claim is non negotiable in order to attempt to gain leverage. Why is a 5 year contract limit instead of an 8 year contract limit a necessity for the league? They are arguing over peanuts.

  16. #376
    Scooter Banks
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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Agree with Deadbolt, there have been no actual negotiations.

    And why in the world is a 5 year contract length a "hill to die on"? BTW, love that Daly stole that line from a Bob McKenzie article earlier in this process:



    John Shannon from last night:
    John Shannon proving my point. It's like the league has no idea how to negotiate.

    League: HERE'S OUR OFFER, YAY OR NAY.
    PA: Well, let's change this, this, and this.
    League: SO NAY THEN? WE HATE YOU. YOU'RE NOT EVEN OUR REAL MOM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    I don't think there is such thing as a non negotiable point. There are points that either side will claim is non negotiable in order to attempt to gain leverage. Why is a 5 year contract limit instead of an 8 year contract limit a necessity for the league? They are arguing over peanuts.
    Why can't the owners agree to existing UFA, ELC and arb conditions, and $300MM in make whole for 5 years SPCs, a 10 year CBA, and transition? I guess the NHLPA really wants that 9 year CBA with a 7 year opt out. GMAFB.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadbolt View Post
    John Shannon proving my point. It's like the league has no idea how to negotiate.

    League: HERE'S OUR OFFER, YAY OR NAY.
    PA: Well, let's change this, this, and this.
    League: SO NAY THEN? WE HATE YOU. YOU'RE NOT EVEN OUR REAL MOM.
    Do you remember the NHL and NHLPA's initial offers? Both sides are negotiating.

  19. #379
    The chances? Depends on who you ask. I’d say not very likely, there's just too much money at stake. But if they do cancel the season it will likely be in mid January, so you have another month or so to keep the hope alive!

  20. #380
    adater ‏@adater

    From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"
    I believe it and mostly because the bolded has been proven time and time again in these negotiations.

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