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Thread: 2018-2019 NHL Thread – Thunderstorm Warning

  1. #41
    Scooter Banks
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    So...pretty much silent today. There's a conference call for the PA today to update the players on the status, but that's it. If they just let the season go, I'm going to be about as pissed as I could possibly be.

  2. #42
    Silent in terms of negotiations, but players continue to sign in Europe. No way they're accepting the current deal. I thought this was interesting from Friedman's 30 Thoughts:

    2. One thing about 2012 that is different than 2004: there's not as much of a desire in the NHL or NHLPA to blow up the season (with one caveat to come). While there are hardliners, it's nowhere near as widespread - including in the league office. The players were also more militant eight years ago. They don't like what's going on now, but they want to play.

    3. That said, there is some talk Bettman will cancel the entire schedule if things don't go well this week. A month's worth of games? Yes. Garroting everything while we're still in the 2012 calendar year, without any lengthy bargaining sessions? I just don't see it. He's much more concerned about P.R. than I've ever seen him.

    4. Here's the caveat mentioned in Thought 2: the commissioner is under the most pressure of his NHL tenure. You can see it on his face. The hardliners are serious about the givebacks they expect. There are a few teams who would rather cancel the season than get a bad deal. There are others who don't want a season cancelled at all. It's a delicate balancing act, and if a month does get cancelled, a lot of them will be extremely emotional.
    First, LOL that this is Bettman at his most concerned over PR. Second, sounds like the only way Bettman can make everyone on his side happy is to get the players to sign off on this agreement (or something close to it) and soon. He must be feeling pressure from sponsors and NBC as well - NBC can't be happy that they are paying millions to broadcast hockey on the re-branded NBC Sports network and have nothing to show. Which may explain why the NHL was so desperate that, after muzzling owners all summer, it allowed owners and GMs a 48 hour window to discuss the CBA with the players directly to circumvent NHLPA leadership:

    Here is the NHL’s memo to GMs, owners allowing them to talk to players about lockout proposal

    Shady, Gary. Very shady.

  3. #43
    Scooter Banks
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    Read a tweet earlier that Skinner may be headed either for Charlotte or overseas. I take that as a bad sign.

  4. #44
    Probably, though it might warrant a field trip to Charlotte.

    DGB: Good signs and bad signs in the ongoing CBA talks

    This is my favorite:

    Good sign: There appeared to be cracks in the owners' solidarity during one meeting, when one of biggest lockout hawks got into a shouting match with one of the guys who's always irresponsibly throwing money around.
    Bad sign: Order was eventually restored when everyone told Craig Leipold that he was talking to himself again.
    This one rings a little too true:

    Good sign: Experts agree that the actual gap between players and owners has become so small that the league would have to be run by complete idiots to cancel the season now.
    Bad sign: Everyone who says that immediately trails off, looks around awkwardly, and then mutters "So… see you next year."

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Silent in terms of negotiations, but players continue to sign in Europe. No way they're accepting the current deal. I thought this was interesting from Friedman's 30 Thoughts:

    First, LOL that this is Bettman at his most concerned over PR. Second, sounds like the only way Bettman can make everyone on his side happy is to get the players to sign off on this agreement (or something close to it) and soon. He must be feeling pressure from sponsors and NBC as well - NBC can't be happy that they are paying millions to broadcast hockey on the re-branded NBC Sports network and have nothing to show. Which may explain why the NHL was so desperate that, after muzzling owners all summer, it allowed owners and GMs a 48 hour window to discuss the CBA with the players directly to circumvent NHLPA leadership:

    Here is the NHL’s memo to GMs, owners allowing them to talk to players about lockout proposal

    Shady, Gary. Very shady.
    Doesn't the memo say not to talk about the proposals? Not to mention the reason for this memo seems to be that the players were contacting GMs and not the other way around.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEastDeac View Post
    Doesn't the memo say not to talk about the proposals? Not to mention the reason for this memo seems to be that the players were contacting GMs and not the other way around.
    It was definitely intended to discuss the proposal, even the NHL admitted that, but they laid out rules around how to discuss it to keep the conversations legal. And they certainly wrote it to give the appearance that players were contacting GMs, but the reasoning seems flimsy to me. Mainly because this was the reason given:

    We understand that some of you are being contacted by one or more of your Players and that your inability to respond substantively is creating some awkwardness in your relationships
    Yeah right, I'm sure it is the inability to respond on this specific proposal that is causing the awkwardness. Plus Bettman has kept the owners so quiet, even preventing coaches from attending charity events put on by players, until this offer, which conveniently looks like what everyone expected the owners to aim for. It seems to me that either (1) the owners think they made a great offer and the only reason the players refuse to accept it is because Fehr is misleading them, so they want to reach out to players directly or (2) the NHL is trying to make it seem like there are dissenters in the ranks who are going to their GMs because they don't believe the Fehrs version of the story. Either way, dirty, IMO.

    Another CBA sideshow as NHLPA irate with NHL memo

    ^^ From that, the NHLPA is saying that most contact was initiated by team execs. Of course that might be the NHLPA posturing in order to make the players band together that much tighter.

    Either way, both sides are engaging in games and PR nonsense as the season is being cancelled piece by piece.



    Edit: Supposedly the Canes didn't contact their players, so good for Carolina. Ditto to Philly and Montreal. Sounds like Burke of Toronto was one that was reaching out to players. Asshat.
    Last edited by avalon; 10-24-2012 at 11:15 AM.

  7. #47
    Also, in case anyone missed it last night, the NHLPA is saying they requested a meeting, and the NHL turned it down and said there was nothing to discuss. (Remember when they promised to negotiate around the clock?)

    The sport we love is being held captive by five year olds.

  8. #48
    Scooter Banks
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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Also, in case anyone missed it last night, the NHLPA is saying they requested a meeting, and the NHL turned it down and said there was nothing to discuss. (Remember when they promised to negotiate around the clock?)

    The sport we love is being held captive by five year olds.
    Still saying unless the PA is willing to take their proposal with only minor tweaks, they're done dealing. Tomorrow is going to be a sad day for all of us fans.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadbolt View Post
    Still saying unless the PA is willing to take their proposal with only minor tweaks, they're done dealing. Tomorrow is going to be a sad day for all of us fans.
    Yeah, we'll have a better idea of the NHL's plan is once their deadline passes, when they have to decide if they are going to negotiate or continue their other tactics to try to force the players to the table. If they cancel a month of games, it will at least give the impression that they're still more interested in game-playing than negotiating.

    We're close to the end of October and there has been absolutely no actual negotiations, just two parties presenting offers and then playing with public opinion through pleas, hope, and fear mongering. This is a joke.

    I don't follow the NBA or the NFL much, did their negotiations seem this pathetic?

  10. #50
    Scooter Banks
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    No, definitely not. These two seem like they aren't even trying.

  11. #51
    That's frustrating. The writers seem to think there is a lot of resentment left from the last lockout. Players don't want to be bullied. That part I understand, but I don't get why the owners still insist on bullying. Because they can I guess? If they're still feeling the damage to the relationship from seven years ago, what impact is this lockout going to have?

    Islanders just announced that they are taking deposits for their 2015-2016 season in Brooklyn. While the current season is locked out. Good lord.

    LOL, Bettman was asked about the lockout and said "We have a $3.3B business we're trying to preserve and run. We can't allow paralysis to the business." THEY CAN'T ALLOW PARALYSIS TO THE BUSINESS, THEY SAY, WHILE COMPLETELY SHUTTING DOWN THE BUSINESS. What a disingenuous tool.

  12. #52
    Scooter Banks
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    This has to be the end of Bettman, right? I mean, three lockouts and he's completely lost the players. I don't suppose would be any better, but can a guy be that disliked and untrusted and keep on in that position?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadbolt View Post
    This has to be the end of Bettman, right? I mean, three lockouts and he's completely lost the players. I don't suppose would be any better, but can a guy be that disliked and untrusted and keep on in that position?
    If Bettman is fired, it should be because he had the PA on its knees in 2004 and he fucked up. Any NHL commissioner is going to have to drive a hard bargain because NHL players live in a fantasy world when it comes to their league. A few months playing in Europe, sleeping in shit hotels, traveling by bus/train/aeroflot, and miniscule stipends should be a nice dose of reality for a lot of them.

  14. #54
    At what point do cities start suing the NHL owners for not fulfilling their contracts? I would think that failing to have games played would result in a substantial loss of income for a city. Given that the arenas had those games scheduled and then had to plan other events around that schedule including passing on events if the scheduling didn't work out, I'd think that they would have a legitimate complaint. Obviously, that doesn't work for teams who own their arenas, but how many of those are around? Even though it is a labor issue, it is the owners locking out the players, so it is ultimately their responsibility.

  15. #55
    How much do you think Bettman going hardline on some secondary terms (limits on contract length, punishment for teams that give long contracts the player isn't expected to play out) has to do with him knowing he screwed up the first time around by giving teams plenty of ways to avoid the cap? (Parts of the proposal seems as though it was written by Brian Burke.)

    I'd love for Bettman to be gone after this mess, but I bet the owners love that he takes all the flack for their crappy decisions. And I'm starting to hate Bill Daly, who some reporters say may replace Bettman eventually, just based on his whiney press releases.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by redwing42 View Post
    At what point do cities start suing the NHL owners for not fulfilling their contracts? I would think that failing to have games played would result in a substantial loss of income for a city. Given that the arenas had those games scheduled and then had to plan other events around that schedule including passing on events if the scheduling didn't work out, I'd think that they would have a legitimate complaint. Obviously, that doesn't work for teams who own their arenas, but how many of those are around? Even though it is a labor issue, it is the owners locking out the players, so it is ultimately their responsibility.
    I don't know what the the legal avenues are, but are these cities really going to go after what is often their arena's biggest tenant? A tenant who employs thousands and is a boon to nearby businesses when they're operating. I guess it might depend on the city/team and the lease that is in place, but some might need to tread lightly.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon View Post
    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408031

    Islanders are moving to Brooklyn. That sucks for their fans.
    It sucks for the thousands with season tickets driving to games from Nassau and Suffolk county, but I think most Isles fans would be optimistic about the move.

    You're going from what is easily the worst arena in the league to a state of the art space. Yes, it was not designed with hockey in mind, but they have a few years to try and accommodate hockey as best as possible. You're significantly increasing the amount of luxury boxes available in a much more attractive locale, have a space that is easier to fill, and can probably charge higher ticket prices. All of that should help offset the loss in seats that you weren't filling anyway. You've got rail lines that take you to the doorstep of the arena vs rail lines miles away. I'd assume the area around Barclays offers more than the nothingness that surrounds the NVMC. Most important, going to Barclays keeps the Islanders in NY and on Long Island, even if it's Brooklyn. It may also put some pressure on Nassau to try and come to an agreement with Isles ownership on a new arena which is why I'm interested to see the lease term.

  18. #58
    Lease is 25 years. That area of Brooklyn is okay at best. Flatbush Ave has been a dump for many years, but they're trying to clean it up. There are at least a few bars in the area, but the food I'm not sure about. The really bad part is that LIRR tickets to Atlantic Terminal will wind up adding a LOT to the price of attending. From my place it's like $16 for round trip, but for folks out in Suffolk it gets up toward $25 a pop. Have fun with that family of 4.

  19. #59
    So I am guessing there is 0% chance (or close to it) that a deal gets done tomorrow...correct?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    There's some good food in the Atlantic/Pacific area.
    You follow the NHL thread? Or are you just nervously reading every thread on the boards?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkinsNDeacs View Post
    So I am guessing there is 0% chance (or close to it) that a deal gets done tomorrow...correct?
    Possibly less.

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