• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

A serious question or two...

1976Deac

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
2,433
Reaction score
250
Notwithstanding some folks' criticism, Skip's players graduated and he could flat fill a gym.

I wonder how much in actual ticket sales Coach Bzzz is costing Wake now, and how much of a continuing cash loss the AD, the President, or the Board of Trustees (depending on whoever finally mans up) is able and willing to take. Any ACC-Big East game ought to draw some serious basketball fans, even if they are not big Wake fans, but there sure weren't many in the Joel last night. I would guess there were 9,000-10,000 empty seats there last night.

I do not know what the ticket pricing has been for the non-conference games to date. The Wake ticket site says you can still get a Furman ticket but you can't get a ticket for any other remaining home games (presumably being the ACC games) unless you buy a package. Unfortunately that will change by the day of the first ACC game, but right now the ACC packages appear to be five games for $155-$250 depending on seating and the package.

10,000 empty seats in the Joel roughly costs Wake somewhere between $310,000 and $500,000 cash per game in lost ticket sales. That does not include any of the other associated lost receipts from parking and vendors, but those would be even rougher guesses. That does not include the absence or loss of the increase in student applications that we know from past experience results from a successful basketball program.

I don't expect there to be 10,000 empty seats when State comes to the Joel, but we are still talking serious dollars here in any event. I don't know how much we still owe on Dino's contract (although it should be about over, if it isn't yet), and I don't know how much we're going to owe Coach Bzzz, but I think we do know that somewhere between $310,000 to $500,000 per game is what 10,000 empty seats in the Joel is costing us today, in addition to Dino's contract and to Bzzz.

I am just wondering how many more games of $310,000-$500,000 in lost ticket sales are enough for the AD, or the President, or the Board of Trustees to say we believe that is enough.
 
Predicted it. No comment other than that "predicted it" bit.
 
I was wondering the same thing a week ago. I was much more conservative in my estimate but we certainly stand to lose around a million to a million and a half this season.
 
Per my understanding, you could get in the game last night with a canned good or a toy donation.

So, yeah..think about that...
 
Per my understanding, you could get in the game last night with a canned good or a toy donation.

So, yeah..think about that...

Wake basketball has become single A minor league baseball. Fact.


Thanks Ron! Well done, slick.
 
I was wondering the same thing a week ago. I was much more conservative in my estimate but we certainly stand to lose around a million to a million and a half this season.

Agree with this. I don't think it's anywhere near fair to say that we'd sell an additional 10,000 seats per game if someone else were the head coach. Even when we were #1 in the country we weren't selling out games like this or even games against Boston College. Still, the point remains that you get what you paid for, and Ron Wellman's decision to 'save money' on a contract has ultimately cost the program a tremendous amount of potential revenue.
 
I did the math with my dad last night at the game. We were really conservative to establish a "best-case". We priced each seat at $15 that wasn't filled and used the number that the AD keeps cranking out about attendance (8,500 last night). If we got 13k on average throughout our home games that would be 3,500 seats that aren't filled at every game, or $52,500 per game.

There are 16 games, so that comes out to be $840,000, which is the absolute smallest amount they could be losing because there's no way that even paid tickets to each game are 8,500, and with bigger ACC games we would pull more than 13k. Not to mention that tickets cost more than $15 on a usual basis.

So basically it's pretty easy to see that they are losing over $1 million dollars a year in basketball ticket revenue alone by continuing to employ this head coach. Not the smartest business decision.

Not to mention the long-term costs that are being lost because of damage to the brand name of Wake Forest basketball both locally and nationally.
 
I did the math with my dad last night at the game. We were really conservative to establish a "best-case". We priced each seat at $15 that wasn't filled and used the number that the AD keeps cranking out about attendance (8,500 last night). If we got 13k on average throughout our home games that would be 3,500 seats that aren't filled at every game, or $52,500 per game.

There are 16 games, so that comes out to be $840,000, which is the absolute smallest amount they could be losing because there's no way that even paid tickets to each game are 8,500, and with bigger ACC games we would pull more than 13k. Not to mention that tickets cost more than $15 on a usual basis.

So basically it's pretty easy to see that they are losing over $1 million dollars a year in basketball ticket revenue alone by continuing to employ this head coach. Not the smartest business decision.

Not to mention the long-term costs that are being lost because of damage to the brand name of Wake Forest basketball both locally and nationally.

That is basically what I came up with.
 
Notwithstanding some folks' criticism, Skip's players graduated and he could flat fill a gym.

I wonder how much in actual ticket sales Coach Bzzz is costing Wake now, and how much of a continuing cash loss the AD, the President, or the Board of Trustees (depending on whoever finally mans up) is able and willing to take. Any ACC-Big East game ought to draw some serious basketball fans, even if they are not big Wake fans, but there sure weren't many in the Joel last night. I would guess there were 9,000-10,000 empty seats there last night.

I do not know what the ticket pricing has been for the non-conference games to date. The Wake ticket site says you can still get a Furman ticket but you can't get a ticket for any other remaining home games (presumably being the ACC games) unless you buy a package. Unfortunately that will change by the day of the first ACC game, but right now the ACC packages appear to be five games for $155-$250 depending on seating and the package.

10,000 empty seats in the Joel roughly costs Wake somewhere between $310,000 and $500,000 cash per game in lost ticket sales. That does not include any of the other associated lost receipts from parking and vendors, but those would be even rougher guesses. That does not include the absence or loss of the increase in student applications that we know from past experience results from a successful basketball program.

I don't expect there to be 10,000 empty seats when State comes to the Joel, but we are still talking serious dollars here in any event. I don't know how much we still owe on Dino's contract (although it should be about over, if it isn't yet), and I don't know how much we're going to owe Coach Bzzz, but I think we do know that somewhere between $310,000 to $500,000 per game is what 10,000 empty seats in the Joel is costing us today, in addition to Dino's contract and to Bzzz.

I am just wondering how many more games of $310,000-$500,000 in lost ticket sales are enough for the AD, or the President, or the Board of Trustees to say we believe that is enough.

You really have to throw in the lost revenue for the merchandise as well. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I would imagine it would be pretty high. I know when I was in high school, even a lot of the UNC/Duke fans would occasionally wear some WF merchandise, because it was just a cool "in" thing at the time. Duncan, Childress, & co. put those guys on the map as far as merchandising sales went at the time, and it carried over in the latter days with J-Ho, CP3, JJ, Teague, and AFA. Nike made some cool apparel and we we're a dangerous team to face at anytime and thus very popular when it came to sales.
Now I walk into a Hibbett Sports, Finish Line, Dick's, etc. and immediately notice the vast loss of WF apparel. Not that we had as much as UNC or Duke before, but we had grown a considerable amount over the past 15-20 years. I would think that the loss of merchandising revenue has to be putting pressure on the BOT at this point.
 
Surprised UVA is so high given their football attendance has been abysmal the last 2 years. I'm willing to bet UVA does better than everyone else in generating revenue in the non-revenue sports, though I don't know how baseball, lax, soccer and women's hoops can make up for losing 20K fans per football game.
 
Lots of people at the game last night got in for free by bringing a toy.
 
I would also think that it is harder to sign up companies for sponsorships/advertising these days, especially for the same rate that we could get when we were halfway decent.
 
I would also think that it is harder to sign up companies for sponsorships/advertising these days, especially for the same rate that we could get when we were halfway decent.

Nobody is going to see your billboard so why bother? You might as well sponsor The Dash...
 
I would also think that it is harder to sign up companies for sponsorships/advertising these days, especially for the same rate that we could get when we were halfway decent.

Take a look at the empty corporate "suites" in the Joel. That loss of revenue is huge compared to years gone by.
 
From the 2012-13 Basketball Media Guide

ANNUAL HOME ATTENDANCE
Season G Total Avg. Rank
2011-12 16 138,802 8,675 22
2010-11 19 174,781 9,199 21
2009-10 15 177,498 11,833 9
2008-09 15 181,832 12,122 6
2007-08 17 202,282 11,899 8
2006-07 17 174,992 10,294 16
#2005-06 18 263,970 14,665 1
2004-05 16 209,321 13,083 4
2003-04 15 197,950 13,197 3
2002-03 16 170,582 10,661 14
2001-02 16 174,277 10,892 13
2000-01 16 179,033 11,190 12
1999-00 16 179,215 11,201 11
1998-99 16 163,191 10,199 17
1997-98 17 194,223 11,425 10
1996-97 14 191,936 13,710 2
1995-96 14 179,108 12,793 5
1994-95 13 155,465 11,959 7
1993-94 16 131,656 8,229 23
1992-93 15 139,505 9,300 20
1991-92 16 166,958 10,435 15
1990-91 15 139,575 9,305 19
*1989-90 14 131,123 9,366 18
1988-89 13 101,150 7,781
1987-88 15 99,830 6,655
1986-87 15 105,900 7,060
1985-86 15 121,831 8,122
1984-85 15 114,914 7,661
*First season in Lawrence Joel Coliseum
# Season tickets sold out for first time in school history
 
We are top 5 in profits :)

The way I read it we are 3rd in profits in the ACC - and way better that most. This has to be a wakekup to many here.
IMO Wake admin is so headstrong that they can handle a million lost without bowing to us, the masses.

PROFITS
Virginia – 6,839,869
Virginia Tech – 3,752,954
Wake Forest – 3,586,168
N.C. State – 1,370,235
Maryland – 675,996
North Carolina – 558,646
Duke – 380,330
Miami – 216,098
Georgia Tech – 133,377
Boston College – 0
Clemson – 0
Florida State – 0
 
Back
Top