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Ongoing gun violence/injury thread

SkyDivingDeacon said:
I take offense to that statement. I really do. You think I think it's alright that a bunch of little kids were shot to death and that we shouldn't do anything about it?

I'll be the bigger person here and just ignore the sentiment there.

...

My view is that, the larger issue is the people getting the guns not the guns themselves. Look at my comment about the NICS approach. 50 people of about 50,000 were held accountable for not passing a background check. Clearly I have a huge problem with that and the loopholes at gun shows.

And again, my contention is that defining what is and isn't an assault weapon is the problem and is the wrong way of thinking. Look at VT in 2007. Cho used two handguns and killed, what, over 30 people? So are handguns now assault weapons?

Clearly, if there was a database/registry that showed that he (Cho, Lanza and most of the others) had continued problems with a recorded mental illness throughout his life, he wouldn't have ever been able to buy a gun. So again, let's go ahead and put a ban on XYZ weapon because, again, that's clearly worked so well before...
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What about the way out of whack numbers for accidental shootings and suicides with guns in this country compared to other developed countries? We have a MUCH bigger gun problem than just crazy people committing mass shootings. How do you propose to stop things like this:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/3...-station-draws-comparisons-to-trayvon-martin/
http://www.kctv5.com/story/20574105/boy12-dies-after-accidental-shooting-in-caldwell-county
http://lancasteronline.com/article/...-dies--family-plans-to-donate-her-organs.html
 
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SkyDivingDeacon said:
Yes, the little kids were going to tackle the crazy guy with a gun.

Small capacity? I would say that 12 shotgun shells is far from small capacity. And not to mention that there are bandoliers that can feed shotgun shells without the need for reloading.

Again, the point being, where do you draw the definition of what's reasonable and what's not reasonable? My Glock carries 15 + 1. I can reload it in less than three seconds. Is that now an assault weapon as well?

And had I made my shotgun statement with say a bow and arrow in its place, then I could understand your initial logic of 'no fucking way duuuude.' But again, have you ever shot an AR-15 or a shotgun, ever?
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Obviously you didn't read the part of the story where one of the high school principals tried to stop him. Do you think it is easy to reload your shotgun when someone is assaulting you? This is just a ridiculous argument.

Your Glock isn't an assault weapon, but there is literally no legitimate need to have a 15 round magazine in it. That is just another part of the problem that needs to be solved.

And yes, I've shot just as many different types of guns as you.
 
RJKarl said:
Just like elkman and other gun people who are way out of the mainstream in America, Skydiving won't come up with a reason why large magazines shouldn't be made illegal.

Because other crimes aren't prosecuted is not a reason.

Because criminals would likely still get them is not a legitimate reason.

We know for a fact lives were saved in Phoenix when the shooter had to reload.

Please answer this directly.
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He/she might have you on ignore.
 
TWDeac said:
Obviously you didn't read the part of the story where one of the high school principals tried to stop him. Do you think it is easy to reload your shotgun when someone is assaulting you? This is just a ridiculous argument.

Your Glock isn't an assault weapon, but there is literally no legitimate need to have a 15 round magazine in it. That is just another part of the problem that needs to be solved.

And yes, I've shot just as many different types of guns as you.
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Just out of curiousity what kind of capacity do you agree on?
 
if it's really about defense, as you know, weapons marketed in this way are frequently either 5-6 shooters, or pocket pistols that hold not more than ~eight rounds.

I have a .357 5 shooter, snub nose, no safety, revolver reliability. middle of the night, point and shoot, aim for center mass, empty the gun, simple. bad-ass gun, at night with .357's (instead of .38s) you can see fire come out of a barrel for two feet. that's a home defense gun. Needed it for my mom when she is by herself in rural VA, which is where I target shoot. also good for making noise on hikes if you break your leg.

just as an aside, I have the savage .223 12FV bolt action with a leopold var-mag 9x-12x scope which to my knowledge is the most accurate mass produced off the shelf rifle you can buy. At 100 yards prone in no wind with match ammo I can shoot the letters out of a Dr. pepper can. that gun's stock capacity is 4+1, and for defense if I feel like killing you with it with that particular one i'm probably only going to need one shot, and someone who is familiar with the bullet drop and distance estimates (i'm not) would be able to do it from as much as 400 yards away. but I didn't mean to bring this gun in on a defense discussion; only to brag on myself and my gun.

anyway, I also had a .380 double action ACP which held at most 4/5+1 (can't remember). You get shot with a .357 or with a hollow point .380... you don't need more than that.
a shotgun with pistol grip could work too, but even with extended magazine pump mossbergs hold something like 6+1 do they not?

anyway so I think the answer to your question most reasonable people would agree to be between 5-9 rounds are good capacities for defensive weapons in the vast majority of situations in the U.S. But, TBH barrel length matters a lot to me too. that S&W five shooter isn't good past 30 feet cause of the snub nose and absurdly heavy trigger, same with the 380 ACP..barrel just too short. then again the action also matters a lot... in the pump shoot example, imagine an over under shotty... it'd be just like the revolver. yeah truth is as i write this post, round capacity is merely one component - trigger weight, concealibility (barrel length, inverse to accuracy), and action type matter too.

lets see someone replicate sandy-hook or VT with any one of the three perfectly viable defense weapons I mentioned above. with the actions I mentioned and no after market mods, only one it'd be possible with would be the 380 ACP, and even then you'd need like 15 extra clips/mags, and you'd be reloading for the same total time you'd be firing.
 
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And you know in that post above I tip my hand about how much I like guns. As I said, I have all shooting related merit badges and shot competitively in tournaments at camp raven knob. I'm not unaware of the need for guns in certain situations: ranchers meed them for a host of reasons, people with a demonstrable danger to themselves may legitimately need one if for nothing more than piece of mind, projects (which include hunters) to control species' populations, to outdoors men they're a tool ranking just below things like water, lighters, compasses, and pocket knives.

therefore, people could apply for a firearm and providing they: clean background inclu. mental health, pass drug test, give documentation of legitimate reason for use, are require to present documentation of a thumb print safe, present documentation of having taken accredited firearms safety class.

integrate the DEA into the existing illicit firearm importation prohibition organizations (and gradually legalize all drugs--w/edu. to continue to keep use down-- to undercut all the gang and drug violence and floods of guns cross border), implement a perpetual gun buyback plan that matches or even beats black market rates, close public gun shows for private transactions (and don't give me that crap about government tyranny it's already been established the 2nd amendment was written at a time when the government's weapons were the same as the citizens', which is obviously not the case now) and I think you've got a winning 75% comprhensive policy for "winning" the war on we need to be having on guns.
 
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Wakefan77 said:
Just out of curiousity what kind of capacity do you agree on?
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Personally, I'd be a fan of restricting the populace to single-action weapons, but as that would never fly, I think a 10 round capacity would be a good place to start.
 
RJKarl said:
Just like elkman and other gun people who are way out of the mainstream in America, Skydiving won't come up with a reason why large magazines shouldn't be made illegal.

Because other crimes aren't prosecuted is not a reason.

Because criminals would likely still get them is not a legitimate reason.

We know for a fact lives were saved in Phoenix when the shooter had to reload.

Please answer this directly.
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I will play along again...

My Glock 19 and 23 came with 15 and 13 round magazines respectively, which is more due to the relationship of the size of the cartridge (9x19 in the Glock 19, and 40S&W in the Glock 23), and the size of the pistol, more than anything else. Those are standard magazines for those pistols. The magazines fit flush to the bottom of the grip. Ten round magazines are reduced capacity. That is fact.

If you think that a law limiting magazine capacity would have prevented someone from firing a certain number of rounds over a twenty minute time frame, then you are simply delusional.
 
No it's who is delusional by disregarding the fact that lives WERE saved in Phoenix when the shooter was subdued while reloading.

As usual, you haven't come up with a legitimate reason for the large sized magazines/clips/drums.
 
RJKarl said:
As usual, you haven't come up with a legitimate reason for the large sized magazines/clips/drums.
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Because there isn't a legitimate reason once you get past the, "it makes it sit flush with the bottom of the grip" one.
 
RJKarl said:
No it's who is delusional by disregarding the fact that lives WERE saved in Phoenix when the shooter was subdued while reloading.

As usual, you haven't come up with a legitimate reason for the large sized magazines/clips/drums.
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You mean where the 32 round magazine or whatever it was that was used suffered a broken spring and stopped feeding cartridges? Not sure which pistol was used, but I bet you would have to go back to a Mauser 1893 broomhandle to find a pistol that has a regular capacity of even 20 cartridges...
 
TWDeac said:
Because there isn't a legitimate reason once you get past the, "it makes it sit flush with the bottom of the grip" one.
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Not sure what you mean by that, other than than my 1911 is OK with the 7 shot magazine, as is my US made Walther PPKS with its 7 shot magazine, even though they are quite different in size?
 
RJKarl said:
No it's who is delusional by disregarding the fact that lives WERE saved in Phoenix when the shooter was subdued while reloading.

As usual, you haven't come up with a legitimate reason for the large sized magazines/clips/drums.
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Do you mean Tuscon?
 
elkman92 said:
Not sure what you mean by that, other than than my 1911 is OK with the 7 shot magazine, as is my US made Walther PPKS with its 7 shot magazine, even though they are quite different in size?
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It was a joke. There isn't a legitimate reason.
 
the whole idea of adding additional resource officers is stupid because it isn't cost effective. despite (appropriate) media coverage, the chance of a shooting at any given school at any given time is pretty small, and since it's easy to identify impoverished areas, at risk schools probably already have a resource officer.

Not that it would matter. even with their 17 shot glock, they aren't doing shit when ambushed with an 762 rifle with a bananna clip firing full metal jacket rounds that will penetrate not only his breastplate, but his body and backplate as well.

When I was a child, before school shootings were the norm, friendly officer wilson (who it turns out isn't so friendly outside the classroom when he isn't lecturing lies to indoctrinate children--which isn't immoral at all either btw) was asked what would you do if someoene walks into this library and starts shooting? He said: I'd flip this table over and get behind it and hope I don't get killed. That was the only part of his talk to us that wasn't a lie in retrospect, and even measly 556 rounds can go straight through a table without even hardly slowing.
 
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