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Ongoing gun violence/injury thread

It helps me to think about how evil and horrible this nation and society were and how things have gotten better. As an educator, I'm optimistic about the future. I've taught two generations of students who are much better prepared to take on this horrible society than our generation was.
 
what does that have to do with the suggestion we culturally prepare people for a different reaction to shooters?

Because we have plenty of examples that it's not true. It's not a "cultural preparation." Obviously police don't assess a situation and wait or whatever. We know they won't wait a "goddamn second" to kill a man or boy with a toy gun. Cops are scared shitless of an active shooter, so they won't go in and do what they're supposed to do.

Let me add that it's totally reasonable to be scared of an active shooter. But don't go SWAT cosplay and demand millions of dollars and then not do your job. Support reasonable legislation to keep guns off the streets which should make their job easier.
 
I mock you because you are an asshole who thinks you can just start randomly insulting people because you're pissed off.
 
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That's 12 minutes after his grandmother called 911.
 
Obviously police don't assess a situation and wait or whatever. We know they won't wait a "goddamn second" to kill a man or boy with a toy gun. Cops are scared shitless of an active shooter, so they won't go in and do what they're supposed to do.

I have a different take. LEOs do not hesitate in situations where they have control and intend to dominate, LEOs absolutely hesitate in situations where risk is involved and they aren’t in control, because they *aren’t* supposed to risk their lives.

It’s the difference between authority and vulnerability. Protecting someone would require risking your authority, which is why LEO tactics require waiting an hour to stack a special forces team while a lone gunman slaughters a classroom of children. It’s why Law Enforcement Unions have gone to the Supreme Court to argue that they aren’t legally required to “protect and serve”. LEOs foremost responsibility is to their own safety, because *they are the state*.
 
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I have a different take. LEOs do not hesitate in situations where they have control and intend to dominate, LEOs absolutely hesitate in situations where risk is involved and they aren’t in control, because they *aren’t* supposed to risk their lives.

It’s the difference between authority and vulnerability. Protecting someone would require risking your authority, which is why LEO tactics would require waiting an hour to stack a special forces team while a lone gunman slaughters a classroom of children. It’s why Law Enforcement Unions have gone to the Supreme Court to argue that they aren’t legally required to “protect and serve”.

That's not a different take. I completely agree. That's just a more detailed explanation.
 
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That's not a different take. That's just a longer way of saying what I said.

It’s not. You implied they hesitate because they are scared, and they are “supposed” to do their job. I’m saying that they are doing their job. Their job is imposing the will of the state, and they are not supposed to act without being sure that they can do that. Look at this situation - we have a whole squad of police who instead of rushing a lone gunman in a classroom, were instead handcuffing and pepperspraying the frenzied parents outside for an hour. That was their job. To maintain order in a situation where they had complete control.
 
Hell, look at the definition of “police” as a verb - control, regulate, keep in order.
Nothing in that definition about protecting, nothing virtuous is required or even intended by that word.
 
You don’t have to convince me you’re right. I agree. I think not being in control when risk is involved in the expectation of risking your life is a more detailed way to say being scared.
 
You don’t have to convince me you’re right. I agree. I think not being in control when risk is involved in the expectation of risking your life is a more detailed way to say being scared.

Maybe, but do you really think it was individual fear that kept those police officers from rushing that murderer? I don’t.
No question they were afraid, but individuals do lots of dangerous things despite fear or even because of it. I think the “hesitation” of the police in Uvalde was completely due to procedure or lack of. From everything I have witnessed and learned in my life about American policing, the base concern of every situation is authority. Police impose their authority to the extent of their ability, and retreat or refuse situations where they can’t impose authority. Heroism or even the necessity of action seems to be irrelevant.
 
Ah. So your argument is that despite all that spending on school security and SWAT and such, they actually did not have a plan for a school shooting.
 
Loving seeing the school walkouts. Definitely seems to be more pressure this time.
 
It looks like the Mayor of Uvalde who called Beto "a son of a bitch" at Abbott's press conference, and who is spending 40% of his town's budget on the police, just maybe isn't getting his money's worth and should spend that money elsewhere.

 
Police are scared of getting shot, but let's make sure that weapon is still legal for civilians
 
Police are scared of getting shot, but let's make sure that weapon is still legal for civilians

I know its been said multiple times on this thread, but it really couldn't be any clearer...and its not just legal for civilians but legal for 18 year olds with issues and no requirement for a permit to carry.
 
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