• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Clarence Thomas Speaks During Oral Argument

Yeah but look at the current political climate and then gauge how difficult it would be to pass an amendment that clears 38 of 50 states. I much prefer the living constitution interpretation than the originalism one. I think original purpose has some value and obviously the text is important, but it's extremely over simplistic I think to adopt the method that Thomas and Scalia use. I prefer a logic more similar to what Souter espoused in Harvard's commencement speech in 2010.

It would be difficult, no doubt, but that's the point. We are talking about a constitution here. Also, what's the harm in jurisprudential simplicity? Legislators should be the ones making difficult decisions, if only because they have the institutional competence and accountability to do so. What the hell does a judge know about policy? And who is he accountable to?

Plus, constitutional amendment often isn't required to tackle the legal issues of the day. Take gay marriage. In 10-20 years it would likely be passed by most states. But the SCOTUS is likely to short-circuit the democratic process this term and impose gay marriage on a populous that might not yet be ready for it. I understand that outcome is likely in line with your policy preferences, but we lose something in the loss of process.

And before you raise Brown v Board, if the equal protection clause was about anything it was about correcting disparate treatment based on race. I'm quite sure an 1860s congressman's head would spin around if he were told that the 14th amendment would be invoked to mandate gay marriage.
 
Yeah the explicit purpose of the 14th amendment was to correct disparate treatment on race. If you go by the 14th amendment though and the original intent then it's difficult to reconcile it with school desegregation. Nearly nobody (even the radical Republicans) thought that the 14th amendment should desegregate schools as it was nearly unanimously shot down when it came up again with the Civil Rights Acts of the 1870's.

If you just look at the text and not the purpose there is perhaps a better argument that it is a broad amendment, but I would not advocate for this as I stated earlier I'm not a fan of just taking the text as the answer and then proceeding from there.

I agree more with a process argument (representation-reinforcement model) which was proposed by Ely in which the role of the judiciary is to play referee. The goal of the judiciary here isn't to enact policies more in line with one political party or ideology but rather to ensure that nobody is disparately or unfairly impacted by the rules (i.e. laws). This does a decent job of reconciling the decision in Brown while shooting down things which might be considered as overly activist by judges. It's more about process than outcome in this model.

Either way I just find originalism overly simplistic because there are portions of the Constitution which are at tension with one another.
 
Yeah the explicit purpose of the 14th amendment was to correct disparate treatment on race. If you go by the 14th amendment though and the original intent[SUP]1[/SUP] then it's difficult to reconcile it with school desegregation. Nearly nobody (even the radical Republicans) thought that the 14th amendment should desegregate schools as it was nearly unanimously shot down when it came up again with the Civil Rights Acts of the 1870's.[SUP]2[/SUP]

If you just look at the text and not the purpose there is perhaps a better argument that it is a broad amendment, but I would not advocate for this as I stated earlier I'm not a fan of just taking the text as the answer and then proceeding from there.[SUP]3[/SUP]

I agree more with a process argument (representation-reinforcement model) which was proposed by Ely in which the role of the judiciary is to play referee. The goal of the judiciary here isn't to enact policies more in line with one political party or ideology but rather to ensure that nobody is disparately or unfairly impacted by the rules (i.e. laws). This does a decent job of reconciling the decision in Brown while shooting down things which might be considered as overly activist by judges. It's more about process than outcome in this model.

Either way I just find originalism overly simplistic because there are portions of the Constitution which are at tension with one another.[SUP]4[/SUP]

1. Most originalists, Scalia included, would say that they are not searching for "original intent" in constitutional interpretation but "original meaning." "Intent," as applied to collective body, is a misnomer--it's a meaningless concept to ask what a collective body "intended." "Meaning," on the other hand, is an objective determination that can be evaluated by studying the congressional record, contemporary dictionaries, case law, etc. The word "intent" is often thrown around carelessly (present company included), but that's not really what we are after.

2. "Meaning" can be pitched at different levels of generality. One the one had, we could ask "would a contemporary interpretation of the text have led to school desegregation?" That's obviously a specific level of meaning. On the other hand, we could ask the more general question of "would a contemporary interpretation of the text have resulted in a principle of racial equality that should now lead to school desegregation." In this way, Brown can be reconciled with originalism despite the fact there is evidence that the contemporary meaning of the 14th Amendment would not have prohibited segregation.

3. I'm not aware of any originalists who focus exclusively on the text. Textualism is a method of statutory interpretation, but not constitutional. That said, it is probably true that originalists tend to focus on the text more than those who adhere to other methods of interpretation, but that's because the inquiry of originalism is to determine the original meaning of the text.

4. What do you have in mind? And why would looking for the original meaning in the case of constitutional provisions in tension with one another be any worse than any other method of interpretation?

Finally, isn't your point about the difficulty of constitutional amendment really an argument in favor of a conservative constitutional jurisprudence? If the SCOTUS creates a right that we the people think shouldn't exist, there is nothing legislative that can be done about it. We'd have to amend in order to correct the error. If, on the other hand, the SCOTUS doesn't create a right that we the people think should exist, we can always enact a law protecting that right, and with much less burden than amending the constitution. The consequences of error are much less difficult to overcome with a conservative judicial philosophy.
 
BTTT:

 
Back
Top