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YoungBuck95 said:
I'm confused as to how you have Chapman as a game changer but not Kimbrel. They've been in the league for the same amount of time. And Kimbrel dominates Chapman in 2012 stats. As a matter of fact, he dominates him in stats every year.
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Because I think Chapman can start.
 
This is what I said first about Chapman: "If you can't get a Chapman (whom I would probably start) or Rivera, there's little reason to break the bank for a stopper."
 
Bronson, avalon and I were talking about people overpaying for closers not stoppers. I made a booboo in that line.

A stopper is an ace of a starter. Kershaw and Verlander are stoppers. Kimbrel is a closer.
 
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Ah I see. I guess what threw me off was the mention of Mo.
 
why would there be little reason to pay for a kershaw or verlander?
 
my big issue with poz's research is that it treats all closers equally. i agree the managerial decision to wed oneself to a closer is flawed, and that's why you don't see the gains you'd expect given that studs like kimbrel, mo, etc. do exist. managers running out players like axford, acevas, and bell last year (9, 8, and 8 blown saves) undermines the kimbrels of the world. i think if we saw managers use a absolutely elite relievers most efficiently and all the way down, we'd likely see a rise in that number. the problem, though, is that takes a lot of balls.
 
yeah color me still confused, rj.

anyway, tomorrow, I shall try to prove JPos right with #s. what are the best pitching stats i should use for relievers? i know saves are super whack, but i'll use them as 1 just for discussion. xFIP? I know WHIP and ERA kinda get crushed by the low inning count.
 
i.e. if you find yourself with out a guy performing at an elite level you caddy him with a platoon mate or are willing to use matchups in the 9th like you would any other inning.
 
Bronson Pinchot said:
yeah color me still confused.

anyway, tomorrow, I shall try to prove JPos right with #s. what are the best pitching stats i should use for relievers? i know saves are super whack, but i'll use them as 1 just for discussion. xFIP? I know WHIP and ERA kinda get crushed by the low inning count.
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i value fip for rpps more than xfip especially if you're looking at multiyear numbers. honestly, wpa may be the best if you can figure out a good way to make the data readable.
 
deacphan said:
i.e. if you find yourself with out a guy performing at an elite level you caddy him with a platoon mate or are willing to use matchups in the 9th like you would any other inning.
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trying to help prove this tomorrow statistically
 
may do fip for 3 year totals and xfip for 1 year totals. then wpa, war(?), and saves. hopefully it turns back some interesting results pivoted against salary and innings.
 
i'd be tempted to use save%. yes it's a bs stat, but it's pretty much exactly what we're talking about.
 
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deacphan said:
i.e. if you find yourself with out a guy performing at an elite level you caddy him with a platoon mate or are willing to use matchups in the 9th like you would any other inning.
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How would you handle the closer roll if you were Davey Johnson? Would you platoon Soriano, Storen and Clippard based on match-ups?
 
Bronson Pinchot said:
Gotta think they paid Soriano 12M specifically to be the closer role.
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Hm, Cots has him at $14MM, half deferred:

2 years/$28M (2013-14), plus 2015 club option
- signed by Washington as a free agent 1/15/13
- 13:$14M, 14:$14M, 15:$14M club option
- $14M in salary ($7M annually) is deferred, to be paid in $2M installments each January 5, 2018-25, reducing deal’s average annual value to about $11M
- 2015 option guaranteed with 120 games finished in 2013-14
- if option vests or is exercised, half of 2015 salary also is deferred, increasing annual payments in 2018-25 to $3M
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I kind of thought clubs had laid off the deferred payments recently. Is that still common?
 
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