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Ongoing NC GOP debacle thread

myDeaconmyhand said:
Charters like Woods enroll the students whose parents apply, just like a private school. The "choice" you speak of doesn't apply to Chatham county. As I've posted on here before, 2/3 of the parents in Chatham county probably don't even know Woods exists, and they couldn't all "choose" it even if they did.
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I'm sure jhmd will explain that all of these schools have unlimited space and their teachers can teach anybody who shows up. It's just those stupid poors who aren't choosing it.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Charters like Woods enroll the students whose parents apply, just like a private school. The "choice" you speak of doesn't apply to Chatham county. As I've posted on here before, 2/3 of the parents in Chatham county probably don't even know Woods exists, and they couldn't all "choose" it even if they did.
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My kid got into Woods. After a lot of hand wringing, we chose to stay at our year round option, even though it was four miles farther than our base school. We are comfortable with that choice, but it was nice to have it.

You are correct; if you live in Goldston or Bear Creek, Woods might not be an option. Wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't just "Woods or your local litterbox"?
 
PhDeac said:
There are already schools where they live. They're the schools you want people not to choose.
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Right. Old model, slow to change, unaccountable schools safely insulated from competition that people are forced to go to. It's a real wonder they're not competing with charters, huh? I wouldn't choose those either, if I lived in those neighborhoods, and would want more options. Wouldn't you?

Please explain the Dem preference for protecting and strictly enforcing the hard caps on charters, to limit the options of the people you profess to have a monopoly on advocating for. It's almost like you don't have an answer or something...
 
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The answer is to get rid of the restrictive regulations and high stakes testing regime choking public schools, decrease the number of administrators, bring back teachers' aides, increase teacher pay in order to recruit stronger teachers, and then let them teach. In the poorest schools, include funding for breakfast, robust after-school programs, and dinner.

What's your problem with that?

I'll answer for you. It keeps taxpayer money in the hands of teachers dedicated to serving students instead of funneling it to private education companies, religious organizations, publishers, and testing companies.
 
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JHMD, you're a real champion for involved parents, but what you dont seem to understand is that this conversation isn't about them, because they and their children are not the problem. Yes, there are some great involved parents who have to send their kids to shitty schools. I'm sure they'd be glad to know you're advocating for them, but the real problem is fixing those shitty schools, not separating wheat from chaff.
 
PhDeac said:
The answer is to get rid of the restrictive regulations and high stakes testing regime choking public schools, decrease the number of administrators, bring back teachers' aides, increase teacher pay in order to recruit stronger teachers, and then let them teach. In the poorest schools, include funding for breakfast, robust after-school programs, and dinner.

What's your problem with that?
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It's refreshing to hear an appreciation of the dangers of government regulation, and I think we need more teacher's aides, but your hypothesis about what might work is not as compelling as manifest evidence of what is working. What if we put our pride aside for a moment and expanded on something that is working until its positive returns prove not to be replicable? If we can't afford both innovative charter schools and slumbering dinosaurs on the end of a bus route, we can always decide which one to keep.
 
Listening to This American Life story on school integration. Heartbreaking listening to these white Missouri moms protesting busing black kids into their district. We already decided "separate but equal" doesn't work, yet they keep trying. Pure hate.

By the way, here is the demographic breakdown of The Woods from US News.
http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...arter-school/woods-charter-14243/student-body

Nice work, jhmd.
 
jhmd2000 said:
It's refreshing to hear an appreciation of the dangers of government regulation, and I think we need more teacher's aides, but your hypothesis about what might work is not as compelling as manifest evidence of what is working. What if we put our pride aside for a moment and expanded on something that is working until its positive returns prove not to be replicable? If we can't afford both innovative charter schools and slumbering dinosaurs on the end of a bus route, we can always decide which one to keep.
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What's not working is the Republican strategy. Why are charters necessary to be "innovative?"
 
PhDeac said:
Listening to This American Life story on school integration. Heartbreaking listening to these white Missouri moms protesting busing black kids into their district. We already decided "separate but equal" doesn't work, yet they keep trying. Pure hate.
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Why don't you just lapse into ad hominem smears when you run out of answers? Put yourself down for a par on your scorecard.

Somehow you're missing the "choice" part of the "choice" approach. You're too intelligent to be genuinely confused, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're choking on toxic pride. When it comes to public education, your anti-choice rhetoric and prideful refusal to consider ideas not-invented-here is no ally to people you claim to represent. With friends like you...
 
You don't understand that "choice" is restricted and everybody can't just go to their first choice school.
 
PhDeac said:
What's not working is the Republican strategy. Why are charters necessary to be "innovative?"
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You better tell US News, because they must be missing your valuable insight when they make their rankings of academic performance. Please make haste in sharing your super secret, subjective criteria that confirms your biases and ignores the factors deemed relevant by the leading national publication on the subject.
 
PhDeac said:
You don't understand that "choice" is restricted and everybody can't just go to their first choice school.
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Who is restricting it, if not the people opposing expanding charter options (would you like to borrow my mirror)?
 
jhmd2000 said:
You better tell US News, because they must be missing your valuable insight when they make their rankings of academic performance. Please make haste in sharing your super secret, subjective criteria that confirms your biases and ignores the factors deemed relevant by the leading national publication on the subject.
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What about the bottom of that list?

jhmd2000 said:
Who is restricting it, if not the people opposing expanding charter options (would you like to borrow my mirror)?
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You are so dense. Space. Everybody can't go to the same school.
 
knowell said:
Moar Charter Schools, PH. How many times must he say till you understand it.
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Pride's a helluva drug. When you spend all day convincing yourself you're the only one who cares and you're the smartest guy in the room, any other cognition has a hard time getting a foothold.

How can it be a good idea if he was against it?
 
We seem to be generalizing the hell out of this charter school movement. What do these charter schools have in common? Methods? No. Buildings? No.

What differentiates charters and public schools? Parents, SES, class size, and government regulation. The only element of those that can be replicated on a large scale is, SUPRISE, the lack of government regulation.
 
Maybe JHMD can answer this, if the world IB program is so foolproof, why hasn't it been implemented nationally? We've already got common core, why not IB? If every school can just implement IB we won't even need school choice.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
We seem to be generalizing the hell out of this charter school movement. What do these charter schools have in common? Methods? No. Buildings? No.

What differentiates charters and public schools? Parents, SES, class size, and government regulation. The only element of those that can be replicated on a large scale is, SUPRISE, the lack of government regulation.
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The difference is competition and choice. It works in pretty much everything else. I am not sure why elementary school education should be different. If people were compelled to buy from my company, you can be sure that my response time to their problems would be a lot longer than if I know they can go to my competitor if I piss them off.
 
knowell said:
The difference is competition and choice. It works in pretty much everything else. I am not sure why elementary school education should be different. If people were compelled to buy from my company, you can be sure that my response time to their problems would be a lot longer than if I know they can go to my competitor if I piss them off.
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Those are meaningless buzzwords. The kids at Woods aren't competing with North Chatham at EOGS.

Instead of bullshitting, describe a common feature or aspect of a charter school that public schools don't have.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Those are meaningless buzzwords. The kids at Woods aren't competing with North Chatham at EOGS.

Instead of bullshitting, describe a common feature or aspect of a charter school that public schools don't have.
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The schools in theory would have to compete to attract students. If they do a crappy job, they loose their "customers". It's not meaningless to the rest of the world.
 
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