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Ongoing NC GOP debacle thread

PhDeac said:
More that black parents need to pick schools that fit their work schedules. They're less able to pick schools a long distance away or don't fit into their work commute. Not everybody has the flexibility that school choice systems favor.
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if kids are bussed to a school a long distance away doesn't that mean the kids are gone for a longer period of time and thus there are more hours available for the parents to work instead of being home with the kids?
 
knowell said:
The schools in theory would have to compete to attract students. If they do a crappy job, they loose their "customers". It's not meaningless to the rest of the world.
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That sounds like a great business plan for a mall food court. Not quite the same for stationary buildings where different types of children learn to read and write while their parent is at work. You all seem dead set on focusing on the children who need your help the least.

Maybe this time you can tell me what specific aspect of charter schools in general is different than public schools in general
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That sounds like a great business plan for a mall food court. Not quite the same for stationary buildings where different types of children learn to read and write while their parent is at work. You all seem dead set on focusing on the children who need your help the least.
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Yeah. A system that guarantees winners and losers isn't going to solve problems for kids in the worst situations.

Milhouse said:
if kids are bussed to a school a long distance away doesn't that mean the kids are gone for a longer period of time and thus there are more hours available for the parents to work instead of being home with the kids?
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Yes, if kids are bussed. Busing isn't provided for choice students in FL. It's up to the parents to get them there.
 
It isn't stupid per se. It would be a logistical nightmare for buses to take kids wherever they wanted to go in the district and get all the kids there on time. Not to mention the transportation costs.

But it definitely favors one income households or those who can afford after school care, families who can provide their own transportation and don't have to balance school transportation with work schedules.
 
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PhDeac said:
It isn't stupid per se. It would be a logistical nightmare for buses to take kids wherever they wanted to go in the district and get all the kids there on time. Not to mention the transportation costs.

But it definitely favors one income households or those who can afford after school care, families who can provide their own transportation and don't have to balance school transportation with work schedules.
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And the unemployed or part-time-only workers, who should be the bottom of the bottom SES that you are trying to help, right? It's amazing that those who have such trouble finding work have such busy work schedules.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That sounds like a great business plan for a mall food court. Not quite the same for stationary buildings where different types of children learn to read and write while their parent is at work. You all seem dead set on focusing on the children who need your help the least.

Maybe this time you can tell me what specific aspect of charter schools in general is different than public schools in general
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Most charter schools' identity is tied to their academics, whereas most public schools' identity is tied to their athletic programs.
 
You'd be the first one to call a parent lazy if they planned on being unemployed or part-time from August to June.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Most charter schools' identity is tied to their academics, whereas most public schools' identity is tied to their athletic programs.
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Fair criticism. And some kids are going to want to play for the top football program in the area than go to the best academic program they can choice into.
 
PhDeac said:
Fair criticism. And some kids are going to want to play for the top football program in the area than go to the best academic program they can choice into.
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And parents move kids from school to school for athletic reasons all the time. Think about all of our recruits who bounce from school to school from year to year. Most of those parents aren't from great SES levels. But when it is for academic purposes, somehow the logistics become impractical?
 
From year to year? Sure. But people don't just get jobs over the summer to keep them for 12 months. And not every job is right by a top school.
 
knowell said:
Moar Charter Schools, PH. How many times must he say till you understand it.
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jhmd2000 said:
Pride's a helluva drug. When you spend all day convincing yourself you're the only one who cares and you're the smartest guy in the room, any other cognition has a hard time getting a foothold.

How can it be a good idea if he was against it?
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Charters fail at a similar rate as, if not higher than (limited data by design), neighborhood public schools. Next.
 
And charters can just close up during the school year out of the blue if they run out of money. If you want to run education like a business, you force education to carry the risks of businesses.
 
I may have missed it over the past few pages, but how can North Carolina specifically build more charter schools if they keep cutting taxes? Where are the proposed shifts in tax money coming from?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I may have missed it over the past few pages, but how can North Carolina specifically build more charter schools if they keep cutting taxes? Where are the proposed shifts in tax money coming from?
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Doesn't the charter utopia involve a situation where each charter school (or charter system) has a corporate beneficiary? (But it won't end up like privatizing prisons, trust us!)
 
jhmd2000 said:

SO LET'S BUILD MORE OF THEM CLOSER TO WHERE THEY LIVE.
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Such a colossal waste of resources abandoning the buildings and people at existing schools.

jhmd2000 said:
Right. Old model, slow to change, unaccountable schools safely insulated from competition that people are forced to go to. It's a real wonder they're not competing with charters, huh? I wouldn't choose those either, if I lived in those neighborhoods, and would want more options. Wouldn't you?

Please explain the Dem preference for protecting and strictly enforcing the hard caps on charters, to limit the options of the people you profess to have a monopoly on advocating for. It's almost like you don't have an answer or something...
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These schools are held more "accountable" than they have ever been. 10-15% of the school year is wasted conducting standardized assessments
If we are committed to educating all children in this country, then we have to stop treating schools like a business. Schools shouldn't have to compete against one another. They are working together to educate this country's youth.

jhmd2000 said:
Then you don't understand my argument, and have worked hard to get that point of deliberate misunderstanding. Please answer my question first. The scarcity you complain of is courtesy of the people who oppose expanding on these successes. Please explain why you would oppose trying more of something that is clearly working.

eta: the thing you guys keep opposing keeps working. Swallow a little pride (I'm sure they'll be plenty leftover) on behalf of the kids you claim to be looking out for and let's make this thing a little better for everybody. If Big Public Education feels a little threatened, nobody is stopping them from stepping their own game up and proving you right and me wrong.
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And dumping money into private schools, with private buildings, with private standards is a colossal waste.



jhmd2000 said:
It's refreshing to hear an appreciation of the dangers of government regulation, and I think we need more teacher's aides, but your hypothesis about what might work is not as compelling as manifest evidence of what is working. What if we put our pride aside for a moment and expanded on something that is working until its positive returns prove not to be replicable? If we can't afford both innovative charter schools and slumbering dinosaurs on the end of a bus route, we can always decide which one to keep.
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You keep stating that charters/privates are doing a great work. While some are, just like some public schools, nationally, they are 0.7% better according to national testing. This is with the obvious advantages that charters have in selecting their student populations.

jhmd2000 said:
Why don't you just lapse into ad hominem smears when you run out of answers? Put yourself down for a par on your scorecard.

Somehow you're missing the "choice" part of the "choice" approach. You're too intelligent to be genuinely confused, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're choking on toxic pride. When it comes to public education, your anti-choice rhetoric and prideful refusal to consider ideas not-invented-here is no ally to people you claim to represent. With friends like you...
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Once again, not a business. The problem is not a lack of choice, the Big Public School Monopoly that you like to call it. The problem is more societal, cultural, socioeconomic. See below:

myDeaconmyhand said:
JHMD, you're a real champion for involved parents, but what you dont seem to understand is that this conversation isn't about them, because they and their children are not the problem. Yes, there are some great involved parents who have to send their kids to shitty schools. I'm sure they'd be glad to know you're advocating for them, but the real problem is fixing those shitty schools, not separating wheat from chaff.
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jhmd2000 said:
Who is restricting it, if not the people opposing expanding charter options (would you like to borrow my mirror)?
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Funny you talk about restrictions for charters since about the only restriction they face is how many there are. Stop restricting public schools through budget cuts, slanderous statements, standardized testing, and layers upon layers of bureaucratic "accountability" BS. See below:

PhDeac said:
The answer is to get rid of the restrictive regulations and high stakes testing regime choking public schools, decrease the number of administrators, bring back teachers' aides, increase teacher pay in order to recruit stronger teachers, and then let them teach. In the poorest schools, include funding for breakfast, robust after-school programs, and dinner.

What's your problem with that?

I'll answer for you. It keeps taxpayer money in the hands of teachers dedicated to serving students instead of funneling it to private education companies, religious organizations, publishers, and testing companies.
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Most charter schools' identity is tied to their academics, whereas most public schools' identity is tied to their athletic programs.
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I'm torn on high school sports. Big time Highschool Basketball and Football programs are ripe with corruption and detract from the purpose of school, but the majority of programs are not big time, and these sports help keep students interested and dedicated.
 
Especially charter and private schools that are diploma mills for aspiring college basketball players.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Big time Highschool Basketball and Football programs are ripe with corruption
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difference-between-ripe-and-unripe-fruits_2.jpg
 
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