Official Pit Job Search/Employment Thread

Yeah, the timing thing is tough. I always send one because it is the proper thing to do and I write it such that it COULD help me if it gets there in time... but having been on both sides of the coin, I know that most decisions are pretty evident by the time you interview your last candidate.

My company is looking for a Compensation Analyst. Ideally some HR background, but given some of our projects a fairly recent grad with audit/Finance background could work. PM me for details. or look at https://www.chenmed.com/employment.

We're hiring a customer success specialist. Looking for around a year or so experience. eCommerce SaaS company in Charlotte. PM if you have interest or have a candidate to recommend

Really disengaged right now at work. Don't want to go into much detail on here, but if anyone knows of any mortgage operations or product management related jobs for someone with ~6 years experience in/around Charlotte, I'd love to explore.

Y'all I need some advice. I'll bullet point it because it covers the last year or so.

1) I'm a WFU grad with a masters from the top school in my field, Public Health (Johns Hopkins). I do mostly quantitative work: database building, digital data collection, analyses, manuscripts.

2) August, 2016: I searched for jobs after graduation, missed most due to having just graduated (fair enough) but got hired by my internship boss - from when I was a student - who hired both me and my research partner from school as data analysts plus another MPH student as a coordinator. The job offer was super low - below even the minimum on JHU's pay scale for my position. Pay scale median is $18k more. I am 29, have 4 years' research experience before school, and have worked with this team before. I raise objections and boss says he agrees I deserve a lot more but that he doesn't have any more money and that he was going to work on it, talk to him in 6 months. I don't have any other options at the time so I sign.

3) Feb, 2017: We hire another full time data analyst at the same low rate.

4) June, 2017: Sit down performance review with my boss. All positive. We talk about my concerns (mainly inefficiencies in the group which prevent me from getting as much work done as I'd like) and I have to literally force him to talk about salary. It's still the same. He says, again, I agree that you deserve more but I don't have enough money to give you all raises. I'll talk to my administrative assistant to see what we can do. Also, if we get re-upped on this contract, it will be a no-brainer to give you a raise to what you deserve - $13-18k more. I make sure he knows that I'm not there to negotiate for *everyone*, just trying to do right by myself.

5) July, 2017: I quietly get a $1,500 pay bump, which meets the JHU minimum for my job for this new FY.

6) August, 2017: I get assigned to design the entire front end of the database plus data collection instruments and protocols for a $1.7 million, 3-country study. JHU (and therefore, me) gets no salary support. The data management team is at another university and yet I was volunteered/assigned by my boss to do all the work for them.

7) September, 2017: The person assigned to our contract gets canned; new contract on hold. The group is overworked and, at the behest of one of my post-doc supervisors that I like a lot, I agree for some reason to take on some coordination duties to relieve stress from our main administrator, even though it's not at all related to my job and I don't know how to do any of it and I have plenty of work as it is.

8) October, 2017: In complaining discussions, I find out my coworker - the coordinator - got a $4k raise on Jan 1. She thought we all did, was surprised that I didn't, and thinks it's an administrative oversight and that I should ask for back pay.

9) Today: I find out we're hiring yet another employee, one that I already know and don't like at all. So that's great. The application for a new contract is in but there's no guarantee on if we'll get it or when we'll even find out.

Which brings us to now. I'm 30, doing quant work with a degree from the top school, making barely more than I did as an hourly employee in WSNC before I started my masters (with cost of living for Baltimore, it's actually less) and Glassdoor says my market value is $13k higher. Over the last year, I've been an exemplary employee, worked on numerous studies, have published or are completing/revising 5 first-author papers in addition to many others I've contributed on. My boss told me 13 months ago that he'd fix things and he hasn't. I'm tired of being poor. Everyone I graduated with last year is making a lot more than me and they're appalled at my salary when we talk about it. My boss treats us all like family - we're going to his house for a whiskey party on Saturday. I don't want to burn any bridges. I'm applying to PhD programs and need those letters of recommendation etc., which go in by December 1. By then I'll only have 8-9 months before I have to stop work to start a program. I have saved no money over the last year and have rent and student loans etc. to pay. It's possible that, this being academia, I did it to myself and should shut the fuck up but I still can't help but feel like this isn't normal and I'm being absolutely ripped off.

What do I do? Especially interested to hear from those in academia, as I know this isn't private industry (which I'd kinda kill to be in at the moment). I'm obviously not a businessperson.

My wife is in academia and while I think that the nature of the industry puts you in a tough spot sometimes, you still need to at least be open to other employment options or you have no leverage to ask for more. Have you explored other positions in the organization that might not have the same restrictions in paying you more? Or positions in industry or at other universities?

If the answer is that you needed to stay for various reasons (to finish X paper, because you need letters or rec, too late to start something new, etc.) you are mostly out of luck. What incentive is there for them paying you more, if despite all of what you've been through and your experience you aren't considering other options?

You can try having a candid conversation with your boss and explaining that you think you are worth more than you are receiving, but it sounds like he knows that already. I don't think it would be burning a bridge if you say that you are looking for something different that furthers your career and pays you closer to what you think you are worth.

TBDeac said:

My wife is in academia and while I think that the nature of the industry puts you in a tough spot sometimes, you still need to at least be open to other employment options or you have no leverage to ask for more. Have you explored other positions in the organization that might not have the same restrictions in paying you more? Or positions in industry or at other universities?

If the answer is that you needed to stay for various reasons (to finish X paper, because you need letters or rec, too late to start something new, etc.) you are mostly out of luck. What incentive is there for them paying you more, if despite all of what you've been through and your experience you aren't considering other options?

You can try having a candid conversation with your boss and explaining that you think you are worth more than you are receiving, but it sounds like he knows that already. I don't think it would be burning a bridge if you say that you are looking for something different that furthers your career and pays you closer to what you think you are worth.

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Yeah. I've brought it up enough that he knows. Actually just found out from the other analyst that she's making $6k more than me and has since she got hired. Thought we were all at that level (we obviously aren't). So that's fun! She's younger, has less experience, and graduated a year after me. (Not that she's not a wonderful employee - she is)

And it's not really an "organization". It's one professor's research group. So this "thing" was only really established when the original trio of us were hired last summer/fall.

Are you going to bring that up with your boss? Seems like you should

wfudkn said:

Are you going to bring that up with your boss? Seems like you should

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Yep, sounds like I have to. Unfortunately, he's in Guatemala right now - then we're going to his house for a party Saturday - then he's in Nepal/India for 10 days. So it may be a bit.

Serious question, ipity, have you considered the private sector? Quant skills are very valuable, especially if you have any data science or programming background as well. Even if it feels like the type of work you're doing doesn't relate to the private sector, they'll still hire you based off your background and potential.

AnonymousDeac said:

Serious question, ipity, have you considered the private sector? Quant skills are very valuable, especially if you have any data science or programming background as well. Even if it feels like the type of work you're doing doesn't relate to the private sector, they'll still hire you based off your background and potential.

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I haven't so much at this point... although if Betsy DeVos does away with PSLF, I'll probably have to. I think after a PhD I'll have an excellent skillset to do private sector work if I want but for now my goal has been developing my CV for doctoral applications. And it's been undeniably successful, just wasn't expecting to sacrifice as much as I have financially to get good experience (ex. friends of mine in other research groups at the same university are making 10k more for less strenuous work). I'm not trying to get rich in academia, just struggle a little less.

I think the question should be asked what do you want a PhD for? At your age If it's not to go the academic route, meaning not become a professor but instead work government or private sector public health, then it's pretty much useless in comparison to just experience. This is also strictly speaking if the PhD remains in public health, statistics, epidemiology or the like. If it's in something research heavy then might be worth it but even then all depends on the end goal.

Ipity, I'm in market research, whenever your looking to get out of academia and into private sector, ping me, I'll ask around.

Louis Gossett Jr said:

I think the question should be asked what do you want a PhD for? At your age If it's not to go the academic route, meaning not become a professor but instead work government or private sector public health, then it's pretty much useless in comparison to just experience. This is also strictly speaking if the PhD remains in public health, statistics, epidemiology or the like. If it's in something research heavy then might be worth it but even then all depends on the end goal.

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For biostatistics, a Phd is very important for upper-level pharma jobs. Almost impossible to get an upper-level job without one.

Yeah, I'm not a straight biostatistician. The goal with the PhD would be to develop stronger quant skills and do stats (l could get a stats masters if I stay here, actually) or disease modeling or applied field epidemiology. Then either work in academia or NGO/govt or industry. Could be anything really, haha.

ipity - have you looked at one of the UN orgs like UNDP? The pay / benefits are much better than academia, you get to stay in the public sector and it looks good on a CV if that's what you're worried about.

Might end up pursuing an PHd overseas for less $$ too, in the long run.

Shoot me a PM and I can get you in contact with a few people if you want.

You need to start applying and interviewing for other jobs or be prepared for nothing to change.

No judgement here, stories are always way more complex than a single board post and meaning is often nuanced. But I do have a few thoughts based on a decade of hiring/negotiating salaries/managing people/running companies:
1- There is no need for coworkers doing the exact same job and performing at the exact same level to make the exact same pay. Lots of other factors come into play.
2- If you want more money and your employer isn't inclined to give you that money, go get an offer. Prove you're worth that $. If you can't get an offer for that $, then you're not worth that $.
3- I have given out lots of good-sized raises and promotions through the years outside of the normal annual raise/review cycle. Happy to do it when deserved or needed. But it never happens because the employee simply wants more, or has more expenses, or found out a coworker is making more. It happens when I want them to remain an active and engaged part of the organization and I see their potential/productivity.
4- Tiny organizations/teams with no governance around salary/benefits/etc. can be a real shit show when it comes to this type of thing. I'm sure depending on grants or whatever other funding is very difficult, but if you're going $80k work for $50k and not out on the market getting those offers, it's essentially your fault that the job pays $50k. You're depressing the market by not forcing your employer to right-size salaries. They should do a salary survery, get everyone somewhere in range based on performance and experience and those other factors mentioned above. But since they won't, you have to force it.

ipitytheblue said:

What do I do? Especially interested to hear from those in academia, as I know this isn't private industry (which I'd kinda kill to be in at the moment). I'm obviously not a businessperson.

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Not sure where you are in life, but with a wife and kids I accept the lower academia pay rates in trade for being able to clock out at 5 every day. Half the employees I've hired have commented that they were disappointed at first at the pay but not having any overtime or on-call makes it worth it. Unless you're tied to the big city, you should consider moving back to the dash. Low cost of living and you can attend every Wake game . We have a Public Heath Sciences division here at the hospital, the Cancer Center just got a large grant, and we have just created a Center for Biomedical Informatics, I assume we'll be hiring a lot of your type over the next year or two.

I appreciate the replies everyone! I'm much more of a scientist than a businessperson so all the perspectives are very useful.

vadimivich said:

ipity - have you looked at one of the UN orgs like UNDP? The pay / benefits are much better than academia, you get to stay in the public sector and it looks good on a CV if that's what you're worried about.

Might end up pursuing an PHd overseas for less $$ too, in the long run.

Shoot me a PM and I can get you in contact with a few people if you want.

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I haven't but I'll google it. I'm only going to take a PhD position if it's fully-funded (like Harvard's School of Public Health) and I'm confident that I'll be able to do that.

YankeeInAtlanta said:

You need to start applying and interviewing for other jobs or be prepared for nothing to change.

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Yep, I'm seeing that...

WhatUTalkinBout Willis said:

No judgement here, stories are always way more complex than a single board post and meaning is often nuanced. But I do have a few thoughts based on a decade of hiring/negotiating salaries/managing people/running companies:
1- There is no need for coworkers doing the exact same job and performing at the exact same level to make the exact same pay. Lots of other factors come into play.
2- If you want more money and your employer isn't inclined to give you that money, go get an offer. Prove you're worth that $. If you can't get an offer for that $, then you're not worth that $.
3- I have given out lots of good-sized raises and promotions through the years outside of the normal annual raise/review cycle. Happy to do it when deserved or needed. But it never happens because the employee simply wants more, or has more expenses, or found out a coworker is making more. It happens when I want them to remain an active and engaged part of the organization and I see their potential/productivity.
4- Tiny organizations/teams with no governance around salary/benefits/etc. can be a real shit show when it comes to this type of thing. I'm sure depending on grants or whatever other funding is very difficult, but if you're going $80k work for $50k and not out on the market getting those offers, it's essentially your fault that the job pays $50k. You're depressing the market by not forcing your employer to right-size salaries. They should do a salary survery, get everyone somewhere in range based on performance and experience and those other factors mentioned above. But since they won't, you have to force it.

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Yep, it's a like a family and friends affair (we tend to hire our own interns, though it just started with my group a year ago). That's why it's been tough to play "hardball" with them. They've provided me with a lot of opportunities and friendship, just not a reasonable income. I wouldn't claim that we all deserve the same pay (actually I'd be near the top if that were the case) but we were all told/believed that we were making the same – my boss actually told me that he wanted to give us raises as a block instead of individually – and it turns out we're not, by far. I'm not sure he even knows (really, he's that busy/a crazy person), but something is fucked up. My younger/newer/less experienced coworker was shocked to find out yesterday that I made 6k/now 4.5k less than she does. She actually said, "Holy shit, now I understand why you've been angry about salary."

dot com said:

Not sure where you are in life, but with a wife and kids I accept the lower academia pay rates in trade for being able to clock out at 5 every day. Half the employees I've hired have commented that they were disappointed at first at the pay but not having any overtime or on-call makes it worth it. Unless you're tied to the big city, you should consider moving back to the dash. Low cost of living and you can attend every Wake game . We have a Public Heath Sciences division here at the hospital, the Cancer Center just got a large grant, and we have just created a Center for Biomedical Informatics, I assume we'll be hiring a lot of your type over the next year or two.

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Yeah that's... that's not us. We don't count hours. We do whatever is needed whenever it's needed. My boss will (and has) called me at 9am on a Sunday morning from Nepal to give me 6 hours of work do to for Monday. There are no boundaries (probably our fault but... "everyone sacrifices for the team", right? right?).

And Baltimore has been interesting but I do really miss #WSNC. I was working in PH/Epi, actually (and moved from Piedmont Plaza to the Well's Fargo building to 525@Vine over in the Innovation Quarter), making less actual money but able to save/buy a car/etc. Being a townie around the city, going to all the football games, all that. Unfortunately, Wake isn't really a destination for the sort of work I do (international health research) so when I come back to NC, it will likely be to one of the damned blue schools.