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Thread: Official Pit Job Search/Employment Thread

  1. #121
    Apetit, you got served!!!!

  2. #122
    Scott "Rufio" Feather Junebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevDeac06 View Post
    Seriously doubt anyone here is looking for this sort of job, but I'm hiring an organist/music director. Not the point, though. What has blown me away is that in the job description, where I tell people where to send the application, it says "submit cover letter, resume, and references." Of the 7 applications I've received, only 2 came with cover letters. Is this common for people to be so dense?
    My wife is a recruiter and has a strict set of rules for applicants to follow. It's not like it is difficult; you just have to be able to read and follow directions. If they don't, she doesn't even bother looking at their materials. She throws them away, for the reasons you expressed (lazy, inability to follow directions, etc.). It is astounding how many otherwise qualified people are unable or unwilling to follow simple directions. I wish I could say it was just dumb millennials who have been told they are special their whole lives, but it cuts across generational lines.

  3. #123
    The Pumpfaker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deac6 View Post
    Graduating in May with a degree in Economics. Any suggestions for me as i dip my toes into the big bad scary workforce? Been a bit of a bitch because so many finance jobs require a decent amount of experience.
    1. Decide where you are going to live
    2. Target companies that hire people with your backgrounds (whether they are hiring now or not).
    3. Get your LinkedIn Profile up and running - make it sharp, good picture etc. It should basically reflect your resume which is probably light since you are just graduating, so HIGHLIGHT your education.
    4. Send a connection request to everyone at these targeted companies. I don't care if it's the CEO or a Secretary. You are just sending connect request. If they use linkedin, they will likely accept, if they don't use it - they won't - no biggie
    5. After you have your connection request up in numbers, send introduction emails to the managers and HR folks introducing yourself. If there is a job that fits your background (entry-levelish), reference those jobs. If no jobs, just introduce yourself letting them know you are interested in their company and would like to network regarding future opportunities.
    6. Follow up with them every couple months.
    7. Do this for every company you are targeting in your town.

    GET YOUR FACEBOOK ON POINT. Don't make your profile picture you acting like an asshole. It doesn't have to be you in church either, but just make it somewhat normal. When hiring companies have nothing to base on, they will take a look at what you put out publicly and pass judgement. Is that fair? Probably not. Is it reality? Yup.

    Start there....

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyDeac View Post
    1. Decide where you are going to live
    2. Target companies that hire people with your backgrounds (whether they are hiring now or not).
    3. Get your LinkedIn Profile up and running - make it sharp, good picture etc. It should basically reflect your resume which is probably light since you are just graduating, so HIGHLIGHT your education.
    4. Send a connection request to everyone at these targeted companies. I don't care if it's the CEO or a Secretary. You are just sending connect request. If they use linkedin, they will likely accept, if they don't use it - they won't - no biggie
    5. After you have your connection request up in numbers, send introduction emails to the managers and HR folks introducing yourself. If there is a job that fits your background (entry-levelish), reference those jobs. If no jobs, just introduce yourself letting them know you are interested in their company and would like to network regarding future opportunities.
    6. Follow up with them every couple months.
    7. Do this for every company you are targeting in your town.

    GET YOUR FACEBOOK ON POINT. Don't make your profile picture you acting like an asshole. It doesn't have to be you in church either, but just make it somewhat normal. When hiring companies have nothing to base on, they will take a look at what you put out publicly and pass judgement. Is that fair? Probably not. Is it reality? Yup.

    Start there....
    Thanks a lot! yeah number 3 I need to work on. I think I created one as a freshman but completely forgot all login info and never used it.

    Yeah thank god I never really use facebook. Had to clean that up for sports last year because the school was a bit anal about that stuff.

  5. #125
    If you're graduating this May.... Isn't your question like a year late?

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by buckets View Post
    If you're graduating this May.... Isn't your question like a year late?
    Not really. The majority of companies are putting out entry stuff right now. I've built some connections starting in the fall but some of the places that I talked to said that I was way to early (didn't know that was a thing).

  7. #127
    I was told on my first day of work I'd be getting new office furniture. Here I am 18 months later and still have the same beat up crap. Doesn't affect my ability to work so who cares.
    Hungry

  8. #128
    you may find a job through linkedin. you will definitely find a job through actual networking. family and friends of family can be a huge help when there's a mass of unwashed college grads descending upon linkedin.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by RevDeac06 View Post
    Because we're anticipating 25 or more applications by the time the search is over. I don't give a crap where someone learned to play the organ, which really is all a resume tells me. References are helpful, but I'm not going to start there. The cover letter is where the candidate can express themselves and put a "face" to the resume. It is where they can convey their passion for music, their understanding of how music can transform a congregation, what sort of teacher they might be. Church hires are different than corporate hires, so it's not as simple as "can you tickle the ivories?" but "how can you enhance the ministry of this congregation through music?" No resume will answer that, and in trying to make heads or tails of so many applications, the cover letter allows candidates to distinguish themselves. I'm the HR committee, so having a lot of time isn't a luxury I have while I'm also running the church. The cover letter gives me something to go on, some reason to say "I want to talk to this person further." Furthermore, there really are only a handful of schools that produce quality organists, so the resumes are going to look fairly similar.

    Also, if you want a job that requires at least a BA, you should be able to crank out 3 paragraphs for a cover letter. Even if you think it's stupid for me to ask for it, your refusal to do so shows me that either 1) you are incompetent, 2) you are lazy, or 3) you don't really care about this job, you just want any job you can get. I've just been surprised that, so far, so many people aren't doing it. I thought cover letters were standard anyway (even without asking for it).
    i bet if you had asked for a short response to that question ("how can you enhance the ministry of this congregation through music?"), you woulda gotten a way higher take rate.

    i'd say less than 20% of peeps submit a cover letter with a standard application that doesn't explicitly ask for one. i rarely use one, and when i do it's a generic one.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    My wife is a recruiter and has a strict set of rules for applicants to follow. It's not like it is difficult; you just have to be able to read and follow directions. If they don't, she doesn't even bother looking at their materials. She throws them away, for the reasons you expressed (lazy, inability to follow directions, etc.). It is astounding how many otherwise qualified people are unable or unwilling to follow simple directions. I wish I could say it was just dumb millennials who have been told they are special their whole lives, but it cuts across generational lines.
    thats great for mrs. david lee roth but i wouldn't want my recruiter tossing away quality applicants for petty reasons. that seems pretty lazy too.

  11. #131
    THE quintessential dwarf dartsndeacs's Avatar
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    I will never apply for a job that requires a cover letter. Millenial bullshit like the writing portion of the SAT.

  12. #132
    The Pumpfaker
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    Quote Originally Posted by deacphan View Post
    you may find a job through linkedin. you will definitely find a job through actual networking. family and friends of family can be a huge help when there's a mass of unwashed college grads descending upon linkedin.
    Absolutely, but what if you don't know anyone that works at a company that you are targeting? LinkedIn can be just like applying online. If you do nothing other then get your profile up and running, or just send in an application - then yea, might as well literally throw your resume into a black hole. By connecting with Managers, HR, and Recruiters within an organization, introducing and highlighting yourself makes their job easier then trying to thumb through dozens of resumes that all look the same.

  13. #133
    OGBoards Chaplain
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAppreciateIt View Post
    i bet if you had asked for a short response to that question ("how can you enhance the ministry of this congregation through music?"), you woulda gotten a way higher take rate.

    i'd say less than 20% of peeps submit a cover letter with a standard application that doesn't explicitly ask for one. i rarely use one, and when i do it's a generic one.
    Maybe I'm not interested in catering to the lowest common denominator. Again, if you can't write a compelling letter as to why I should consider hiring you, then I'm not interested. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, I'm still the boss who gets to decide who to hire.

  14. #134
    word.

    i guess i'm biased because i've never gotten a job any other way than recruiters or family/friends.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by RevDeac06 View Post
    Maybe I'm not interested in catering to the lowest common denominator. Again, if you can't write a compelling letter as to why I should consider hiring you, then I'm not interested. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, I'm still the boss who gets to decide who to hire.
    my opinion + anecdotal evidence says that selection criteria like that will result in you choosing among a lower quality pool of candidates. might be totally different depending on the job type / "industry," but from my experience there's an inverse correlation between quality of candidate and willingness to put a lot of time into the application with things like detailed cover letters and essays, etc.

  16. #136
    let's be honest. there's a difference between looking for someone to be musical director for a church and your anecdotal evidence.

  17. #137
    Dickie Hemric
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    Really depends on the role, when I am hiring for lower level sales reps, I don't care about cover sheets. But, when I am hiring for managerial positions, I require a cover letter too - and when I don't get it, I rarely consider the person. I am looking to see if they are actually interested in the position and took any time to look at the company and description before applying. Standard cover letters suck and are easy to spot. For high level positions, hiring managers are looking for invested candidates - for low level, I am looking more for a skill set and job/academic history and if the person can competently put together a resume. A lot of bigger companies will have HR screeners that weed that out too - they only check for the items that are required before the look at the resume or pass it along. I hate using screeners, but sometimes you have to if the applicant pool is too big.

  18. #138
    1. my anecdotes are monte
    2. i bet there are some sweet musicians out there who are pretty happy with their gigs and are too busy writing awesome tunes that would make me believe in jesus to write a cover letter. but on the other hands unemployed college kids practicing on the casio they got for their 16th birthday are all too happy to write cover letters and get their youth group leader to give them references.

    to wit john tesh is NOT writing a cover letter.
    Last edited by IAppreciateIt; 04-01-2015 at 11:52 AM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by IAppreciateIt View Post
    why would you requiring all that stuff

    and are you going to ignore the 5 who didn't submit a cover letter? if not, you have your answer. if you are, id say that's kind of dumb and goes back to the initial question.
    If I was making employment decisions and gave explicit instructions and then applicants didn't follow said instructions I would probably take that as indicative of their attention to detail and how important the position is to them. #inthetrash

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by P4nthers11 View Post
    If I was making employment decisions and gave explicit instructions and then applicants didn't follow said instructions I would probably take that as indicative of their attention to detail and how important the position is to them. #inthetrash
    *If I were

    #inthetrash

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